Swift Boat Group Leader Exposed as Fraud

[Muledeer4me]

"Because of his involvement [in the ad] Col. Cordier will no longer participate as a volunteer for Bush-Cheney '04."

So Ken Cordier is out but the Kerry campaign won't get rid of Zack Exley.
Double standard here?


Sunday, Aug. 22, 2004 8:33 a.m. EDT
Kerry Campaign Won't Fire MoveOn Staffer

"The Kerry campaign is gloating this weekend over the resignation of Bush Cheney volunteer, former Vietnam War POW Ken Cordier, who's featured in the latest Swiftboat ad - saying it proves illegal coordination between the Swiftvets' 527 group and the official Bush campaign.

But Kerry has no plans to fire Zach Exley, a key campaign staffer who served as the organizing director for MoveOn.org throughout the presidential primaries.

Story Continues Below



What's more, MoveOn, whose sole mission is to defeat President Bush in November, maintains that Exley is allowed to "communicate" with the 527 group even as he works for the Democratic nominee.
"Col. Cordier did not inform the campaign of his involvement in the advertisement," the Bush campaign said in a statement late Saturday. "Because of his involvement [in the ad] Col. Cordier will no longer participate as a volunteer for Bush-Cheney '04."

But there's no doubt that Kerry knew all about Exley's background when he hired him.

In April the Kerry for President Web site proudly announced: "Zach Exley joins the [Kerry] Internet team as Director of Online Communications and Online Organizing. He was previously the director of special projects for the MoveOn.org."

Exley claims he won't communicate with MoveOn until after the election, but when he teamed up with Kerry, MoveOn's executive director, Eli Pariser, acknowledged that Exley will be able to make use of "what he's got in his head."

And a statement issued by MoveOn when Exley signed on with team Kerry insisted, "federal election rules permit some forms of communication" between Exley and the liberal 527.

As for the ideas that Exley has "got in his head" and will now be sharing with the Kerry campaign, his past credits include a political parody site that portrayed Bush as a crack user."

 

[Muledeer4me]

Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 9:49 p.m. EDT
Kerry Defender Rood Contradicted by Crewmate

"In a development that the establishment press is treating like bombshell news, former Swift Boat commander William B. Rood has stepped forward to defend John Kerry against the charge that he exaggerated his valor during the Vietnam War in descriptions of a foiled February 1969 ambush on his boat.

But unmentioned in coverage of Rood's story so far is one salient fact: His account is sharply contradicted by one of Kerry's own crewmates, who complained eight years ago that Kerry took credit for bravery he didn't deserve – in an action that earned him the Silver Star.

Story Continues Below



In Sunday editions of the Chicago Tribune, Rood backs Kerry's claim that he singlehandedly took out a Viet Cong attacker who planned to ambush his Swift Boat with a grenade launcher along the Bay Hap River.
Recalling what he saw from a different Swift Boat, Rood writes:

"Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch – a thatched hut – maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site.

"Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ."

They sure do.

Unmentioned by Rood in his Chicago Tribune report is the account of Tom Bellodeau, who, unlike Rood, was actually aboard Kerry's boat when the VC in question leveled his grenade launcher at them.

"You know, I shot that guy," Bellodeau told the Boston Globe during a 1996 interview, correcting an earlier Globe report that echoed Kerry's claim that he alone had neutralized the enemy ambusher.

"He jumped up, he looked right at me, I looked at him," Bellodeau continued. "You could tell he was trying to decide whether to shoot or not. I expected the guy on Kerry's boat with the twin 50s to blast him, but he couldn't depress the guns far enough. We were up on the bank."

Only after the enemy soldier was wounded, said Bellodeau, did Kerry leap from the boat onto the beach and pursue him around the back of a nearby hut, where the would-be president finished him off.

Echoing ex-Commander Rood's version, Kerry's Silver Star citation credits him alone for taking down the Viet Cong soldier, making no mention whatsoever of Bellodeau, who has died in the intervening years.

"An enemy soldier sprang up from his position not 10 feet from Swift Boat 94 and fled," the combat award reads. "Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber."

And even though Kerry spoke at Bellodeau's funeral, he has done nothing to incorporate his crewmate's role in subsequent accounts of the encounter with the enemy fighter.

In a 1996 interview, Kerry made no mention of the first shot whatsoever.

"It was either going to be him or it was going to be us. It was that simple. I don't know why it wasn't us – I mean, to this day. He had a rocket pointed right at our boat. He stood up out of a hole, and none of us saw him until he was standing in front of us, aiming a rocket right at us, and, for whatever reason, he didn't pull the trigger – he turned and ran."

When pressed for more details, the top Democrat said: "I just won't talk about all of it. I don't and can't. The things that really turned me I've never told anybody. Nobody would understand."

Within hours of the Chicago Tribune's Saturday afternoon announcement that William Rood had decided to go public with his Kerry defense, more than 1,500 news outlets were touting the story on their Web sites, with the Associated Press offering no fewer than 10 updates.

None of them mentioned Kerry's crewmate Tom Bellodeau."

 

[Muledeer4me]

Another little twist to the story line?

Saturday, Aug. 21, 2004 10:58 a.m. EDT
FEC Complaint Against 'Fahrenheit 9/11'?

"When the White House accused the Kerry campaign of "losing its cool" on Friday by filing an FEC complaint against the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the Democratic nominee immediately fired back with an allusion to Michael Moore's movie "Fahrenheit 9/11."

"John Kerry is not the type of leader who will sit and read 'My Pet Goat'" when he is under attack, responded Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter, citing the scene of Bush in a Florida classroom immortalized in Moore's film.

Story Continues Below



Was Cutter's reference merely coincidental? Or further evidence of illegal coordination between the Bush-bashing Moore, his backers at the 527 group MoveOn.org and the Kerry campaign?
That's what the Kerry FEC complaint alleges against Bush and the Swiftvets, citing an array of contacts and associations between Bush insiders over the years and the Texans who bankrolled the Swiftvet ads.

But if that's the basis for claiming the campaign finance laws have been broken, Moore, MoveOn and Kerry himself have much, much more to worry about.

Consider: When "Fahrenheit" debuted in late June, MoveOn, whose sole mission these days is to depose President Bush, led the promotional effort.

"MoveOn.org signed up more than 115K people who pledged to see the pic during the opening weekend," the group's executive director, Eli Pariser, told Variety. "When I went to Waterville, Maine, and asked how many people from MoveOn were there, probably about three-quarters of the people there said yes."

"The liberal group MoveOn.org even organized people to prebuy tickets," reported National Public Radio at the time.

The effort included organizing 1,000 people across the country to host "Fahrenheit" parties in their homes, according to Wisconsin's Capital Times. "Eli Pariser, MoveOn.org's executive director, reported during the online conference call that more than 3,000 house parties were taking place Monday night," the paper said.

Pariser's group wasn't the only Kerry campaign surrogate working to promote Moore's film. Key Democratic operatives with ties to top Clintonista Harold Ickes were immediately deployed to trash "Fahrenheit" critics.

Former Hillary Clinton press secretary Howard Wolfson, for instance, was "parachuted" into the Cannes film festival, the Washington Post reported in May, to help fend off Republican attacks on Moore.

Also working media relations for Moore:, Ickes' former White House colleagues Chris Lehane and Mark Fabiani.

Remembered chiefly for his hardball style of scandal management during the Clinton Whitewater and campaign finance imbroglios, Ickes now directs the giant "Media Fund" 527, which the Washington Post has called a "shadow Democratic Party."

Spokeswoman Cutter's reference to "Fahrenheit" isn't the first time Democratic Party officials have been caught coordinating their message with the conspiracy-minded filmmaker.

In February - after Moore called President Bush a "deserter" - Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe immediately incorporated the charge into the party's official attack on the White House.

"I look forward to that debate with John Kerry, a war hero with a chest full of medals, standing next to George Bush - a man who was AWOL in the Alabama National Guard," McAuliffe told ABC's "This Week."

There are also direct ties between the Kerry campaign and MoveOn, via some key personnel.

In April the Kerry for President Web site proudly announced:

"Zach Exley joins the [Kerry] Internet team as Director of Online Communications and Online Organizing. He was previously the director of special projects for the MoveOn.org."

To appreciate the level of coordination represented by MoveOn's revolving door with the Kerry campaign, imagine what the media outcry would be if the Bush campaign suddenly announced that leading Swiftvet John O'Neill would be coming aboard as "Director of Veterans Outeach."

But even that wouldn't be a violation of the campaign finance laws, at least not according to the way those laws have been applied to MoveOn.org, Michael Moore and the Kerry campaign during the current election cycle."

 

[guppie9]

MD4Me-

Sorry I'm a little late replying to you, but I wanted to say thank you for giving me a reasonable, well thought out explanation as to why you want to vote for George Bush. It seemed to me that this thread was going in the direction of "John Kerry lied=Don't vote for John Kerry".

Everyone else-

As I stated before, I am still one of the undecided. However, as a veteran, if I had to vote for someone based solely on who I think would support me the most, I would have to vote for Kerry. I am not going to get into a big debate about that, so please, everyone, don't reply to me and try to goad me into an arguement. I cannot be swayed on this single issue.

It seems to me that I can come up with a hundred different reasons to not vote for John Kerry and a hundred different reasons to not vote for George Bush. Where it is becoming increasingly difficult is finding any reason that I should vote for either candidate.

Does everyone see the difference???

MD4Me has stated some very good reasons why he will vote for Bush. Fantastic!!! I am not going to bash on him at all for that.

Does anyone have any intelligent input as to why I should vote for Kerry or Bush??? Don't tell me why I shouldn't vote for the other guy. If I wanted to know that, I would turn on my TV and watch election ads. It seems that is all they tell me anymore. (Not just in the Presidential election, our local elections here are just as bad).

What I'd like to see is an ad where Bush or Kerry plops down on the front porch, pops open a beer, and tells me why he would be the best man to run our country...and nothing else. Hell, I'd probably vote for him based solely on the positiveness of the ad, even if I didn't agree with him!!!

Thanks for listening.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

So a volunteer for Bush appeared in the ad. Does volunteering for a candidate mean that you cannot support other groups? Do you think Bush personally controls what every volunteer does? Furthermore, they fired the volunteer (if you can "fire" an unpaid person.) SO they did the right thing, didn't they?

A pretty tenuous connection to use to draw the conclusion that Bush personally directed this campaign.

Good post,MD4me.

You know, Bush may just be dumb as a fox. Kerry is spending all this money now instead of later in the campaign, closer to election day.

Just because you repeat something endlessly, does not make it true. The Democrats have found out, though, that the masses will often swallow a lie - if it is repeated often enough and loudly enough.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Cali,
How come you never answered what you thought of the book's author, Corsi? Don't tell me somebody with your SAT scores wouldn't have an opinion on that piece of trash.

I like they way you don't hold Dubya responsible for his campaign. What about those statements "I'm George Bush and I authorized...." statments???

But you are right about the spending money now vs. later. As Kerry is following the law, he is hamstrung on what he can spend between now and Election Day, wheras Dubya has no such limitations on his spending between now and election date.

It is the law, deal with it.

Guppe,
I started the thread on "Hunters WHO should you vote for", to try and get people to think about who would be best for them.

I'm not a fan of Kerry, but I look at a mid-term election as a Go/NoGo type of decision on the incumbent. In my mind (Economy, Fishing, Hunting, National Security, Foreign Policy) Dubya has been a complete failure. Hence the need for change.

It is funny to see MD's attacks on MoveOn, and trying to justify the Swifties actions as similar. My guess is due to her accident, she didn't realize that MoveOn has been around longer than Kerry has been the candidate. MoveOn was started to elect ANYBODY else. The Swifties have only came on to be anti-Kerry. Big difference in motive, association, and credibility.

 

[JoseCuervo]

And yet another of the Swifties exposed as a fraud.... Let's take role call of those that were frauds.... Thurlow, Hoffman,O'Neil, O'Dell, French, and Letson...

It is not like just one of them is on shaky ground with the "truth", but more like ALL of them are getting exposed.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A veteran who has disputed Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's Vietnam war record has admitted he does not have "a single document" to prove Kerry fabricated reports of enemy fire that won him two medals.
Van Odell, a member of the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that has spearheaded a campaign against Kerry's service record, said his was one of seven eye witness accounts and he was not being directed by the campaign of President George W. Bush.

"Our message is our message and no one tells us what to say," Odell told "Fox News Sunday."

Odell said he had met with Republican strategist Merrie Spaeth , a public relations consultant to his group, and once bought a home from Bob Perry, a large Republican donor from Texas and close associate of Karl Rove, the president's chief political adviser.

He acknowledged he had no proof of his charge that then Navy Lt. Kerry, a Swift boat commander, fabricated the "after-action" report saying he faced enemy fire on March 13, 1969, for which he was awarded the Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart for being wounded while pulling a fellow soldier to safety.

" I do not have a single document," Odell said. "I have the fact that I wasn't wounded in that 5,000 meters of fire that he wrote about."

"There was no enemy fire from either bank," he added.

The assertion was another broadside in a debate that has been raging for weeks, and with at least one CBS poll showing the issue cutting into Kerry's support among veterans, the Massachusetts senator has accused the group of collaborating with the Bush campaign and demanded Bush repudiate the ads.

Democratic Senator Carl Levin of Michigan added his voice to that of Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a Vietnam veteran who has also unsuccessfully urged Bush to denounce the ads.

'CHARACTER ASSASSINATION' DECRIED

"The president should do the responsible thing and take that ad off," Levin told CBS's "Face the Nation."

Republican Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas , chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, said that while the group had "every right" to express their opinion, "we ought to get out of the character assassination business."

Kerry says his Republican critics are trying to sabotage growing voter support for his strategy to fight the war on terror.

At a pair of fund-raisers outside New York late Saturday, Kerry renewed his call for Bush to pull the ads.

"We're at war," he said. "But this is a different kind of war from any kind of war we've fought before, and it's because in the last months they have seen me climbing in America's understanding that I know how to fight a smarter and more effective war, that's why they are trying to attack."

Kerry received the Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts for his Vietnam service, which is central to his challenge to Bush. The two candidates have been running neck and neck in key polls.

Kerry on Friday asked the Federal Election Commission to force the group to withdraw its ads.

The Bush campaign has denied any collaboration with Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and other such groups. Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman, on NBC's "Meet the Press," played down the connection between the group and the campaign, including Rove.

"Karl Rove is friends with lots of different people," he said.

On Saturday, the Bush campaign said Ken Cordier, a Vietnam veteran who worked with it on veterans issues, would no longer do so after appearing in a Swift Boat Veterans for Truth commercial.

Bush spent the war in the United States serving in the Texas Air National Guard. Some Democrats accuse him of going absent without leave, citing gaps in his attendance record.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Not having a document to prove you are right is a far cry from being proven wrong. I have yet to see anything that definitively proves that Thurlow is lying. All we have is one person's word against another's. Even Rassman, the Green Beret rescued by Kerry, has stated that he cannot say for certain the the fire was from the enemy and not from the other boats.

Now we have someone else saying that they killed the enemy soldier that Kerry has taken credit for.

Kerry has been proven a liar over and over again. He is the one running - not any of these other guys. The Democratic candidate is a liar. No one disputes that.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Calif. I think you're not reading these articles carefully. "Now we have someone else saying that they killed the enemy soldier that Kerry has taken credit for." All I've read is that someone else claimed he hit the enemy soldier, not that he killed him.

Here's another account of that day on the river. Please read it carefully:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5782981/

 

[Calif. Hunter]

It's simple - I know that Nixon was not President on Christmas Eve, 1968 - a fact that apparently escapes both John Kerry and ElkGunner. This is a simple fact - not an opinion, like everything else that has been posted. Kerry lied. Unless, of course, you believe that Nixon was already been sworn in as President on Christmas Eve, 1968. But if Kerry said it on the Senate floor, it must be true, right?

After all, who could possibly understand that Republicans might support an ad disparaging Kerry? Absolutely shocking and inexplicable. Why, there ought to be a law against that!

Once again, I apologize for ever defending myself against your statements that I was stupid. If I had known what pain the subject of SATs or success brought to you, I would never have brought it up.

You are in denial. I suggest you call your therapist right away. The State is paying for it, after all, since you are indigent.

 

[JoseCuervo]

And yet another Editorial ripping on O'Neil and the Swifties, suggesting that all this will backfire on Dubya. (I like it when they call O'Neil's co-author a "right wing looney"....

Smear by veterans may hurt Bush
By Thomas Oliphant, Globe Staff | August 22, 2004

WASHINGTON
I HAVE VIVID memories of John E. O'Neill's first incarnation as an attack dog trained to go after John Kerry more than 33 years ago, using techniques that are quite familiar as he goes about the same task today. Like Kerry, he was a lot younger then, fresh from the war that still raged in Vietnam and still raged here as well. But then as now he was playing a carefully obscured role that made it nearly impossible to consider him an independent human being.

As The New York Times reported last week, O'Neill had been selected by Richard Nixon's White House to counter the profound impact that Vietnam Veterans Against the War were having on public opinion in the spring of 1971. As the Times also reported, Nixon's political henchman, Chuck Colson, had specifically recruited the Navy lieutenant, like Kerry a swift boat commander in the war, to debate the antiwar movement's freshest star on Dick Cavett's television program.

Those facts, however, only scratch the surface of a put-up-job that resonates today as President Bush tries to campaign against someone who has the military credentials and background he lacks. The more complete truth is that O'Neill was recruited to front for something the Nixon White House was experienced in creating out of thin air -- "citizens" groups that supported various embattled administration policies.

O'Neill was not just O'Neill. He was presented to a disbelieving press corps as the spokesman for something called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. In those days, Nixon was much too intelligent to set up a dummy operation of "veterans" in favor of the war; back then people were dying and killing on behalf of "peace with honor." Representing this letter-head operation, O'Neill was recruited not just for the Cavett show, but to debate Kerry in other forums and to make appearances on Nixon's behalf. He got pep talks directly from Nixon, who had a fixation with Kerry's appeal.

What gets short-shrift these days is that Nixon also wanted to bend heaven and earth to find some aspect of Kerry's Vietnam service -- anything -- that could be used to discredit him. In fact, much of what we call today the politics of personal destruction was pioneered by Nixon's White House. He had a firm control of a fearful government in those pre-Watergate days -- and he used it.

His navy secretary back then was an elegant fellow from Virginia, who today is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. John Warner's people found nothing to whet Nixon's appetite in 1971, and Warner says today (in the spirit of a more outspokenly disdainful John McCain) that Kerry deserved his medals and that the process by which they were awarded was beyond reproach. That just happens to be the reason that the Nixon people put all their eggs in the basket of creating a political force (O'Neill) to try to counter Kerry's appeal.


The White House tired of the attempt rather quickly, and O'Neill was given the goodie of some publicity at Nixon's re-nomination convention in 1972, but he basically retreated home to Texas and a legal career that put him in the middle of the same Republican big shot society that nurtured the political careers of both Bushes.

The big difference between what did and did not happen in 1971 and what is happening today involves the press. With no evidence that could withstand a laugh test, there was no point 33 years ago in spreading a smear. Today, thanks to the emergence of cable TV and a decline in standards, it is much easier to put muck in play, which is what has happened with Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace's 2004 counterpart, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Discerning voters will notice that the more reputable organs of the national press have not cast doubt on Kerry's Vietnam service. That is because political attacks on it don't pass the smell test. We are influenced by eyewitnesses, not by people whose stories keep changing or are contradicted by official records. We are used to arguments over things like war records, but the burden of proof is with the accuser and Kerry's accusers cannot shoulder it with the credible evidence required of credible stories.

But there's another way in now. Raise some Bush buddy Texas money, create a TV ad, hire a right-wing loony to put together a smear book , and cable TV producers desperate for shouting matches are happy to oblige. The result then gets recycled into the serious press because "questions" have been raised about Kerry's record that couldn't survive a minute under traditional standards.

Kerry may have been nicked some at the margins by all this while he was responding via surrogates the last few weeks. Raising the profile of the smear, as well as confronting it directly and putting it at Bush's door, is overdue in the view of some Democratic Party operatives, a risk in the view of others. My own guess is that the higher the profile of this mess the more it looks like the smear it is, and the more it risks boomeranging on the president.

As happened to O'Neill in 1971, the best counter to him today is the serious press attention that his group fears most.

The Swifties are certainly losing the battle in the "mainstream" media and the influential perception associated. Anybody listen to the looney Right-wing AM radio talking heads today? Are they still believeing the Swifties, or are they dropping these Frauds???

 

[JoseCuervo]

And for Cali and Michael, who denied that there was a tie between Dubya's campaign and the Swifties, here is the Dubya campaign acknowledging one of their staffers even appeared in the Swift advertisment....

On Friday, he accused the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of collaborating with the Bush campaign and asked the Federal Election Commission to force the group to withdraw its ads.

The Bush campaign has denied any such collaboration.

On Saturday, the Bush campaign said Ken Cordier, a Vietnam veteran who worked with it on veterans issues, would no longer do so after appearing in a Swift Boat Veterans for Truth commercial.

Cordier did not tell the campaign about his involvement in the ad, a campaign spokesman said.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Looks like Edwards is calling Dubya out to be honorable, and do the right thing. Any bets on what Dubya does???

ROANOKE, Aug. 21 -- John Edwards demanded Saturday that President Bush call for television ads attacking John F. Kerry's military service in Vietnam to be pulled because they are lies funded by Bush allies.

"This is a moment of truth for George W. Bush," the North Carolina senator told a cheering crowd at a magnet school here, where his campaign stopped for a morning town hall meeting. "We're going to see what kind of man he is and what kind of leader he is. . . . We want to hear from the president of the United States. We don't want to hear rhetoric. We want to hear three words: 'Stop these ads!' "



"This is a moment of truth," Sen. John Edwards said, calling for President Bush's intervention. (
Edwards's comments represented what the campaign called a systematic effort to aggressively respond to charges by a Republican-backed group of veterans accusing the Massachusetts senator of inflating his military record. The Democrats' campaign also posted an online ad comparing the attacks to ones leveled against Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) in his bid for the 2000 GOP nomination.

The video, "Old Tricks," will be e-mailed to 200,000 veterans activists, posted on veterans Web sites and sent to more than 1 million Kerry supporters . "George Bush is up to his old tricks," the video says, showing Bush and McCain at a debate in February 2000 .

McCain, sitting next to Bush, says that when "fringe veterans groups" attacked him at a Bush campaign function, Bush stood by and did not say a word. He said a group of senators wrote Bush a letter that said: "Apologize. You should be ashamed."

"I don't know how you can understand this, George, but that really hurts," McCain says in the video.

Kerry's critics are being challenged by a Chicago Tribune editor who was on the Feb. 28, 1969, mission for which Kerry received the Silver Star.

"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," William B. Rood wrote in a 1,700-word story that appeared on the newspaper's Web site Saturday. "One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."

Rood refused requests for interviews, including from his own newspaper. "But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown." he wrote. "The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us."

Rood said allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were overblown are untrue and that Kerry devised an attack strategy that was praised by their superiors. The Tribune said Rood's account was supported by military documents.

Rood wrote that Kerry recently contacted him and other crew members, requesting that they go public with their accounts of what happened. "I can't pretend those calls had no effect on me, but that is not why I am writing this," Rood said. "What matters most to me is that this is hurting crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for what they did. My intent is to tell the story here and to never again talk publicly about it."

On Friday, Kerry accused Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of collaborating with the Bush campaign and asked the Federal Election Commission to force the group to withdraw the ad.

Brian Jones, a Bush campaign spokesman, said, "The president has made it repeatedly clear that he wants to see an end to all" advertising from outside groups.

Edwards had planned to focus his remarks on issues touching voters in this region, where thousands of jobs have been lost in the textiles and manufacturing industries. The partisan crowd, which included Virginia Gov. Mark R. Warner, roared its approval at Edwards's economic message and his direct challenge to Bush. At a meeting later in Charleston, W.Va., Edwards repeated his remarks to another enthusiastic audience.

In Roanoke, World War II veteran George Keller, 82, chairman of the Alleghany County-Covington Democratic Committee, said, "I'm tickled to death that they're deciding to fight back." He added: "You can't fake medals. [Bush] should denounce those ads."

 

[JoseCuervo]

Cali,

Someone with your SAT scores should be able to show us where somebody else killed the guy Kerry claimed to kill. How about a link?

And all those Swifties are being exposed as frauds, bought and paid for by some Texan buddies of Karl Rove and BushSr. Those guys have now decided to put themselves in the spotlight, and it is funny to watch them all being exposed for what they are, frauds.

It is actually kind of sad that Dubya/Rove and Company are manipulating veterans like that.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Calif. and mike, Maybe you have too much invested in your previous posts on this topic to be able to look at it rationally and objectively now, but it would be best to try again. The truth is out now, and I believe this is going to backfire on Dubya real hard.

I agree with Thomas Oliphant, "My own guess is that the higher the profile of this mess the more it looks like the smear it is, and the more it risks boomeranging on the president."

I also think Dubya is too dumb to realize how bad this is making him look and he'll just keep bulling ahead without doing anything to stop the damage. He's gotten away with it in the past, but this time it's going to bite him real bad-----maybe bad enough to lose the election for him.

 

[Michaelr]

You know guys each time you use the MD helmet crap I think you lose credibility.
It is rude, and uncalled for.
Grow up. Act like Men for a change.

And please, I don't want to hear any of the she did it first bullshit.

 

[BuzzH]

If it wasnt the lack of a helmet that causes the thought process....then what possible excuse could there be???

 

[A-con]

I have read all of the so called "proof" that the Swift Boat group are frauds, and none of it proves anything, but, as stated above, "repeat a lie often enough, and people will start to belive it."

If he dosn't have a paper document proveing what he says, then he's a fruad ?

If he disagrees with the military record, then he's a fruad (when it appers that Kerry wrote that record)?
Come on Gunner, thats BS and you know it.

The fact that the kerry campain can't come up with anything better than that indicates maby there is something to these alligations.

Dosn't anyone find it funny that Kerry claims more heroics with only three months "in country" than Rambo did in all of his movies ?

And he (Kerry) staged combat sceans in front of a camera, just so he could "prove" what a hero he was ? I'm sorry, but this guy is really full of shit.

Both Kerry & Bush are liers, no dough about it, so show me a presidental candidate that isn't ?
(from the last fourty years or so )

 

[JoseCuervo]

A-Con,

Don't you think the "burden of proof" should be on the Swifties, who are claiming the official record of the US Navy is wrong, and has been wrong?

Efforts in the media to fact-check the allegations of Kerry's opponents reveal an incomplete record of the incidents in question - including one in which Kerry saved a green beret's life - but one that still weighs in favor of the veracity of Kerry's claims .

An investigation by The Washington Post published Sunday found that both sides have yet to make public all records, including Kerry's diaries, related to the incident in March 1969 when Kerry rescued Jim Rassmann, the former Green Beret who now appears in ads for the senator. But the report also concluded that Kerry's opponents have not proved he lied.

Is what is being proven is that all these guys who claimed to have "served" with Kerry didn't. YOu can't argue that. And for that, they are frauds.

Look at Hoffman's statements.....

And I do agree with you about repeating a lie often enough.... As that is what the Dubya campaign is doing, and what they did in 2000 against John McCain.

A-Con,
This thread isn't about whether Kerry or Bush is the biggest liar. It IS about whether some group of veterans being bought and paid for by some rich Texans are a bunch of liars. And given their charges, and absolutely no proof, they ARE frauds.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

You need to take some more of your medication, EG. Your delusions are taking control again. How long have you been slobbering and twitching at the keyboard? It is obvious that your therapist does not take weekend calls. Be sure to keep your appointment first thing tomorrow.

Obviously, the voices in your head are telling you that there are statements on the Swift Boat vet ads saying that Bush authorized the ads.

Your own SAT scores must have been extremely low for you to be so fixated on mine. But then, I can understand why someone like you would be so easily intimidated.