Study: Elk generally unconcerned about wolves

[406LIFE]

Link: https://www.kpvi.com/news/national_...FbM_FEF5A9O2Qzc2LSL1MKkeV5VDKp3_cTIfnfApSgwz8

Interesting quote:
While the researches acknowledge wolves kill elk, they mostly the vulnerable, which tend to be the young, the old and the sick. That’s why healthy bulls and particularly cows are, generally, unafraid of wolves.
“They stand their ground. Prime age female elk have almost zero chance of being killed by wolves. They stand their ground and fight back,” Smith said. “When you weigh five to seven times as much, you stand your ground.”

 

[COEngineer]

Definitely interesting. Towards the end of the article they point out that wolves do have an impact and elk are not found in some areas anymore because of wolves (and griz), but the biologists come back to the conclusion that habitat is still the top concern, by far. Wolves, weather, etc are relatively minor and/or transient impacts.

 

[IdahoPotato]

We need to transplant some of those hard-ass Yellowstone elk to north central Idaho. That elk population is headed toward Nevada so fast they will have to open up an elk season in Vegas.

But seriously, what the heck is going on in North Idaho? We lost the caribou, moose populations are tanking, and the elk populations are at historic lows.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Interesting read. Sounds like they have a lot more research to do tho.

 

[stuckinthecitylife]

First, this author Christine Peterson must be just as "educated" as every other individual she quotes throughout the article.

You can't fake dumb, and this article does exacerbate many who posses the trait.

One quote says “If you’re looking at an individual elk, the odds of you being killed by a wolf is really, really small. Even if an elk and wolf cross paths which is only happening every seven to 11 days, the chance of a wolf killing the elk is only about 10 percent.”

So if I'm an elk, I'll be dead within around 90 days. (Am I doing the math right?) Sounds about right, even though it dis-proves their theories!

And the myth that Wolves eat "...mostly the vulnerable, which tend to be the young, the old and the sick." is such a fairy tale! Anyone with real in the field experience with Wolves and Elk know this to be utter bunk.

These presumed studies are being conducted by a bunch of loonies, indoorsman or woman with way too much time on their hands, way too much funding, and way to much "education".

Those of you who don't get it yet; bulls and Cows are most intimately fearful of predators, and especially wolves. Their senses alert with dozens of cues, signalling imminent danger to themselves and the herd.

The researchers expect us to believe that because a herd of Elk doesn't run away from the presence of a wolf that it isn't fearful. That's such a crock of garbage. It's life and death with Elk, their entire nature, habits, instincts and habitat is all strictly centered around the healthy fear of predation.

My fellow hunttalker, if people claiming to know about big-game, and big-game habits bring their claims to you with the words like; "study", "university", "data points", or "project" I would be seriously cautious about believing their claims.

- Joseph

 

[Bigjav]

"Elk wintering in the Gros Ventre had all but abandoned the area in the winter of 2017-2018, said McWhirter, with only 86 individuals counted. The wolf density was also higher there than almost anywhere else in the Yellowstone ecosystem. Game and Fish increased hunting permits on wolves, resulting in a dramatic reduction of the predators. Upwards of 2,500 elk returned this winter to the area."

Nothing to see here folks just remember that elk aren't concerned with the presence of wolves

 

[JM77]

This is what happens when elk are unconcerned about wolves in western Wyoming.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Caption, "Apathetic elk".

 

[jtm307]

One quote says “If you’re looking at an individual elk, the odds of you being killed by a wolf is really, really small. Even if an elk and wolf cross paths which is only happening every seven to 11 days, the chance of a wolf killing the elk is only about 10 percent.”

So if I'm an elk, I'll be dead within around 90 days. (Am I doing the math right?) Sounds about right, even though it dis-proves their theories!

Your math is incorrect, but your logic is not. According to those numbers, an elk averages 33 wolf encounters per year. The probability of the elk NOT getting killed in that span of time is .9^33 = 3%. So an elk, according to the numbers stated in the article, has a 97% chance of getting killed by a wolf within the next year. I'm not a wolf alarmist, but I take the article with a grain of salt. The numbers contradict their conclusion.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

“And on any given day in the winter in the Greater Yellowstone, you can find a scenario that would meet almost any of your ideas or emotional claims about how wolves affect elk. You can find a place where the elk didn’t budge when a pack of wolves showed up, and you can find a place where elk ran a mile,” Middleton said.
“You can find a place where wolves killed two or three elk in one go, and you will find a place where wolves fail to kill again and again. And that’s the nature of this predator and prey. The question the studies are asking is what is typical?”

Good news for those seeking confirmation bias.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Open mindedness by dumb dumb authors. Oh my....

Several of the paper’s authors as well as other wildlife biologists in the Yellowstone area agree that this is a broad statement – anecdotes by hunters or wildlife watchers witnessing elk move away from wolves are still likely true – and the response could also vary depending on localized terrain, deep snow or feedgrounds. They also agree that more research is needed into other areas of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho.

 

[std7mag]

We had a very simular write up about coyotes and deer recently in the east.
While i haven't witnessed any interaction yet with coyotes and PA's elk herd, i have watched deer react to both black bear and coyotes.
With bear, they stay a respectable distance, but will still keep grazing.
Coyotes, looks like cockroaches when the lights turn on!

 

[ImBillT]

The simple, and slightly incorrect, version is that a wolf kill is a tag that could have been issued, but no longer can be. If wolves killing elk is negligible, then so is a hunter killing an elk, and so is inaccurate harvest reporting. Either biologists are capable of managing game species via hunter harvest, or they are not.

Reality is obviously quite a bit more complex, and compensatory mortality plays a large role. Wolf kills and hunter kills are definitely not a 1-1 exchange, and while hunters may not take the sick and starving as often as wolves, I don’t see hunters killing as many cows and calves either.

I’m not in favor of extirpation. My opinion on wolf and grizzly reintroduction and protection is that they directly compete for the same resource that I want to utilize. To convince me to reintroduce or protect a predatory species I need to know what the real benefit is going to be and what the real cost is going to be. I don’t like the argument that historically a predator was there, and in certain numbers so now it needs to go back there and be at a certain number. Historically the US was essentially unpopulated. You cannot place an apex predator in a new area and expect the the resident apex predator population to be remain unchanged. We have X units of feed that can be produced in area which will produce Y pounds of elk. I would prefer to split Y pounds of elk with as few wolves and grizzlies as is possible.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Here's more on the Middleton study, which was done in conjunction with the Wyoming Game & Fish: http://wyocoopunit.org/projects/absaroka-elk-ecology-project

But yeah, generally, book learning & the scientific method is for east coast pansies. My buddy Colter down at the Buckhorn got his PhD in kickin' ass, and that's who I listens too.

 

[BuzzH]

The simple, and slightly incorrect, version is that a wolf kill is a tag that could have been issued, but no longer can be.

How's that when there is no limit on OTC resident elk licenses in Wyoming, Montana, (and I think Idaho)...and in the case of Montana unlimited, OTC elk b-licenses for BOTH R and NR's?

 

[Losing_Sanity]

In my experience, tracking and trending metric studies can be twisted to fit any point the author wants. There could be other influences that contribute to this behavior that has not been explored or mentioned. It is a hard sale for me to believe that the wolf populations is not devastating to the elk and deer herds. Wolves are by nature opportunist that will kill for no reason except sport. Some years back, I believe it might have been in western Wyoming or south western Montana, there was around 100 sheep killed and not eaten by wolves. That is pretty devastating. Cattlemen report such experiences with their herds as well.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

...My fellow hunttalker, if people claiming to know about big-game, and big-game habits bring their claims to you with the words like; "study", "university", "data points", or "project" I would be seriously cautious about believing their claims.
- Joseph

So where's a fellow hunttalker supposed to look for credible info, in your view?

 

[COEngineer]

So where's a fellow hunttalker supposed to look for credible info, in your view?

Exactly. The kind of anti-intelligence comments in some of these posts is disappointing. Apparently some people would rather perpetuate the idea that hunters are a bunch of dumb rednecks rather than try to actually learn something and have an intelligent conversation. I guess we should alll sit on barstools and pontificate rather than researching ideas and trying to find evidence that supports or refutes theories that have been put forth.

 

[COEngineer]

These presumed studies are being conducted by a bunch of loonies, indoorsman or woman...

Name-calling and sexism in one sentence. Thanks for showing your true colors.

 

[JM77]

Name-calling and sexism in one sentence. Thanks for showing your true colors.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with his statement, but I think you read it wrong.