RobertD
Well-known member
Damn Yanks can't stand to be outdone by a bunch of Canadians
Straight Talk: Time to Rethink the Drinking Age
- Thread starter Washington Hunter
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D
Deleted member 28227
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I picked 18 because of having minors in bars with adults.
16 year olds in bars just feels like entrapment.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Time to realize that the West European view of alcohol creates fewer problems. Drop the drinking age to 15-16, make it less of a big deal.
SaskHunter
Well-known member
... and when they get arrested and show a US passport or ID, cops just go with: "yeah, I'm not dealing with that shit today, just go home".Damn Yanks can't stand to be outdone by a bunch of Canadians
grizzly_
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- 1,277
I choose to not create a correlation of relativism between weed and beer. The illegality of one does not beget the benefits of the other, and vice versa. I've been known to partake in both, and think most people would agree if one is worse for society, it would be alcohol; but that doesn't make a cogent argument to me that alcohol or weed should therefore be more prolific.
NIH says 24.6% of kids 14-15 years-old have had a drink of alcohol. They also say people who drink their first drink before age 15 are 5.6x more likely to develop alcohol dependency later in life than those who wait until they're 21.
I personally take a Libertarian-type view where I'd loosen restrictions but strengthen penalties for alcohol-related offenses. Basically, if one is truly responsible, then let them be responsible. But if I give you a long enough rope and you hang yourself, then don't come crying to me for mercy. If you want to be treated like an adult, act like one.
For example, I'd put 10 year minimum mandatory sentences on drunk driving. I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO TOLERANCE for that. It's akin to firing a rifle into a crowd... any reasonable person knows the driver is going to hurt somebody eventually. It's a foreseeable event.
A drunk driver hit this young girl not far from my home and left her a double-amputee. He got drunk and tried to drive to the lake. He got two years in prison! As far as I'm concerned, he can get out of prison when she grows her legs back. He f'ed up... and with great freedoms come great responsibilities (and thus consequences).
I also had a family member die of liver failure from chronic alcoholism and it's a horrible way to go. The doctors told him if he kept drinking he'd die but he was too dependent and couldn't quit.
I'm not in any way anti-alcohol, there's plenty in my kitchen right now, but for the life of me I can't justify making it even more acceptable and available to children and young adults that just a few months earlier needed mom's permission to get out of gym class. I just don't see the positives outweighing the negatives. But that's just me.
NIH says 24.6% of kids 14-15 years-old have had a drink of alcohol. They also say people who drink their first drink before age 15 are 5.6x more likely to develop alcohol dependency later in life than those who wait until they're 21.
I personally take a Libertarian-type view where I'd loosen restrictions but strengthen penalties for alcohol-related offenses. Basically, if one is truly responsible, then let them be responsible. But if I give you a long enough rope and you hang yourself, then don't come crying to me for mercy. If you want to be treated like an adult, act like one.
For example, I'd put 10 year minimum mandatory sentences on drunk driving. I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO TOLERANCE for that. It's akin to firing a rifle into a crowd... any reasonable person knows the driver is going to hurt somebody eventually. It's a foreseeable event.
A drunk driver hit this young girl not far from my home and left her a double-amputee. He got drunk and tried to drive to the lake. He got two years in prison! As far as I'm concerned, he can get out of prison when she grows her legs back. He f'ed up... and with great freedoms come great responsibilities (and thus consequences).
I also had a family member die of liver failure from chronic alcoholism and it's a horrible way to go. The doctors told him if he kept drinking he'd die but he was too dependent and couldn't quit.
I'm not in any way anti-alcohol, there's plenty in my kitchen right now, but for the life of me I can't justify making it even more acceptable and available to children and young adults that just a few months earlier needed mom's permission to get out of gym class. I just don't see the positives outweighing the negatives. But that's just me.
2ski
Well-known member
That's a wives tale. Not true. There's tons of abuse in Europe.
Kiwi
Well-known member
In New Zealand we don’t have a drinking age. No idea if it’s sensible or not.
one ate E grain
Active member
95,000 deaths per year, third leading cause of preventable deaths. (after ciggies and overeating/no exercise) Fentanyl and heroin are making a good effort to catch up but they aren't there yet by a long shot. Not sure about the age thing but I'd support making the business a lot less profitable, same with ciggies. I wouldn't want to outlaw booze or tobacco, but I don't see a good argument for allowing companies to reap billions in profits from selling the stuff.
OntarioHunter
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- 5,997
I always thought they should make smoking illegal after age forty. That's when it really starts doing the most damage. But how do you ban it for people who are hooked? Try to stop them from being hooked in the first place.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Lots of alcohol abuse and related health problems all over the world no doubt, but the US does seem to have a particularly aggressive teen culture around binge drinking that you don't see in Europe. Members of my work team routinely live abroad with their families and their teens self-report that US teens obsession with getting blackout drunk is unique in their experience. YMMV.
Rack Daniels
Well-known member
On the contrary… I think the chasm between an 18 year olds maturity and a 21 year old is substantial. Like 0-4 years old… much growth in little time. Just my opinion though. I’m younger than many others here…. What do I know
it does make me wonder what the true catalyst of that American dynamic is
why does america have such a party school reputation in its higher education system? for some reason i doubt that's because of the drinking age. maybe it is?
if we lower the drinking age do we just lower the average rampant blackout age along with it in the statistics?
impossible questions i think. if we could turn back time and restart with a lower drinking age would if be different? i'm not saying it wouldn't, but i wonder.
i was too young or didn't exist, but can anyone compare apples to apples? america with a 18 year old limit with countries having comparable limits? were the alcohol problems similar?
i could google but i'm too lazy, was there a time when the limit was 18 years old but not limited to 3.2 beer? from what i sounds like when my dad was 18 the 3.2 limit didn't stop anyone from getting sloshed on liquor and doesn't seem like it stopped high schoolers from getting sloshed on anything at all.
i just can't help but think that no matter the drinking age american youth would still have a unique issue with alcohol compared to other countries.
perhaps a culture overrides what a law would change in a culture, in this case, i think is what i'm driving at.
just thinking out loud here. not arguing.
RobG
Well-known member
At least in the 80s the drinking age applied to all alcohol in the NW.
In high school the small age difference meant you probably knew someone that could buy you beer. By 15 I was getting drunk most weekends. 21 would have made that much harder.
When I went to college at Montana State U the age was 19. There were several places across the street from campus where you could get blackout drunk. For most students it was a big party every day, not a place to learn. Young people can fight for their country, but they still have very poor judgement. (I flunked out because of beer.)
If it was 21 our first year without adult supervision would not have been such a party. At 21 perhaps we would have had some time to focus on studies and have a desire to stay serous. That’s the age where I had to stay focused on my school.
I don’t know how much 21 has helped in the bigger picture, but I do know it is much harder to get alcohol so it has saved some kids.
D
Deleted member 28227
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But that’s not reality.
It’s incredibly easy to buy alcohol as a teenager, but it’s illegal so you drink up in the woods or at a house party.
At least if it was legal you might have more people drinking at bars which is safer.
Further, kids tend to drink hard alcohol, because it’s easier to someone to buy 2 handles for you then a couple 30 racks.
Hard alcohol is way more dangerous than light beer.
Kimber7man
Well-known member
I would tend to agree. My son matured a great deal from 17 to 18.On the contrary… I think the chasm between an 18 year olds maturity and a 21 year old is substantial. Like 0-4 years old… much growth in little time. Just my opinion though. I’m younger than many others here…. What do I know
Rack Daniels
Well-known member
My father told me when I was about 13, “Son, one day when you’re around 18, you’re gonna begin to think like an adult would… but you won’t understand, like a child would… it was one of the toughest times in my life, and I want you to be prepared…” I thought wtf ever pop, you’re drunk
but he was right… it was a tough mental battle. And I feel he described it well. Not so as to say that I don’t disagree with most on here that boys especially- don’t get their head outta their ass til 24-25… myself included. The drinking age thing is hard… here kids can get their license at 15 and their parents buy them $30-$120k cars and teach them no responsibility about maintenance or fines or what have you- so they drive like idiots since childhood. Then you throw booze into the mix- you gotta 20 year old kid who’s been driving 5-6 years so he’s so confident; he’s Mario Andretti and has no idea the consequences of his or her actions… whereas I got my license at 18 had to do the process MYSELF provide my OWN car that I chewed my nails over when the inspected to see if it was even safe to get in with me.. and passed with flying colors. I drive cautiously and courteously still and hate when people don’t. If I’d change anything it’d be the license laws in states like Montana. Make these kids have licensed driver with them over TWENTYONE OR TWENTYFIVE til they’re an adult.. whatever age we decide that is… and it should be the same to die for our country and drink. I understand being able to follow local laws on post… when in Rome, baby! Thanks to our service men and women
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RobG
Well-known member
I hope you will agree that it is a lot harder for an underaged person to buy alcohol compared to going to a bar legally. I’m not sure why a bar is better than the alternative. You have to drive home.
I graduated high school in western Montana in 2009. (Not that long ago). We would drink in the bars without even having to use fake ID all the time. Some of them knew we were underage, some probably didn’t. All the Frenchtown Bars, Larry’s 6 mile, all the Alberton bars, Rock Cr Lodge, The Jack.
after football games, on Tuesdays, before keggers. All the time. The 21 age limit meant nothing. The prohibition on marijuana meant less. From my experience, the law is fairly meaningless as far as age goes.
On one hand, I should have been much less of an idiot. On the other, after turning 21, when other people my age were partying all the time, I was getting married, working and making money. In a way, I’m kind of glad I just got it out of my system. Now I probably drink 5 beers a month.
after football games, on Tuesdays, before keggers. All the time. The 21 age limit meant nothing. The prohibition on marijuana meant less. From my experience, the law is fairly meaningless as far as age goes.
On one hand, I should have been much less of an idiot. On the other, after turning 21, when other people my age were partying all the time, I was getting married, working and making money. In a way, I’m kind of glad I just got it out of my system. Now I probably drink 5 beers a month.
Rack Daniels
Well-known member
I like this. And it resonates with me some. I graduated 2010. Did all my drinking and drugs way too young now that I’m a father, but, I survived and grew out of it by the time I was aloud to go drink legally.. i still drink beer every day though. Haha. When I moved here at 13, I was expelled in California for a knife i had brought to school just in case.. rough neighborhood won’t get into that.. It fell out in PE and some kid told on me. When I moved to Montana as a freshman in high school, not only did ALL these kids have box cutters and knives clipped on their pants; they had GUNS on their trucks back windows in school!! I loved the lifestyle immediately my father raised me a country boy surrounded by city folk so I understood. But the irony kills me to this day. My grandparents can’t stand to see our fireworks display right now says it sounds like WW3! I say it sounds like freedom!! They get $500 crimestoppers if they turn in someone there, my 4 & 7 year old are lighting them off… Culture difference and political bias is too real.. I’m so glad they can’t come here and vote
