snake river rufus
New member
How do you get the ATV 'experience' over the net? 
Shooting game via the internet?
- Thread starter cmc
- Start date
Tom
New member
I was just reading some history type stuff on hunting. The origin of the word "venison" is the Roman venationes, they were stagged hunts put on by Roman political officers to entertain and feed the masses. I guess they didn't have TV and McDonalds yet.
They would herd in lots of animals and have a gladitorial killing spree. Its also the source for the original recorded anti-hunting protest in 55 BC. Pompey the Great had elephants in the venationes that day. Cicero was there to see it and wrote his friends about it. The elephants refused to fight after being speard a few times. They rose their trunks up to heaven and lamented, as described by Cicero. The crowd saw some semblence with humans, the elephants were the last day, they were probably stuffed by that time. Anyway Cicero said the crowd protested and didn't want the elephants killed, they thought it was vulgar.
All the anti-hunter arguments sound something like Cicero, don't they? We kill to eat, get it? I guess even back then, they felt for the animals sometimes and the anti hunter arguments abound, even here.
You forgot the costs of managing the federal land in your equation Moosie. That means federal dollars support 60% of Idaho. Are there very many Idaho people to pay that tax support they get? Its pretty complicated, accounting.
You guys stick to your TV shows. Maybe my grandkids will someday watch some real live stuff. I guess they could do it now at www.fantasyhunt.com, if I had any. You think they would learn anything about animal behavior there?
Its not a check to the individual, its more like a negative tax. You only pay a reduced instate tag fee, do to the support fromt he federal land supported by the federal funds and managed by a lot of out of state dollars on increased tag fees and Pittman-Robertson funds from the states back east. Where to we get how that money is raised and distributed? There must be a source for it.
One way to value the wildlife is as Moosie did there, the value of free market feed. They need a place to live too, how much is it to provide that. $0 for Idaho you say, the feds support you. Another word for that is sometimes, "welfare". Who started that "welfare" rancher phrase?
I used the family of 5, like 5 200lb people make one elk. Its not exactly right, but its an approximation. Does anybody know what it really costs to raise a Rocky Mountain elk? That's my question. Maybe somebody here is a wildlife accountant or knows one, if there is such a thing?
Do they have that in wildlife school, wildlife accounting? We have some people in wildlife school or who used to be, do you guys know? How much does it cost to raise a Rocky Mountain elk?
They would herd in lots of animals and have a gladitorial killing spree. Its also the source for the original recorded anti-hunting protest in 55 BC. Pompey the Great had elephants in the venationes that day. Cicero was there to see it and wrote his friends about it. The elephants refused to fight after being speard a few times. They rose their trunks up to heaven and lamented, as described by Cicero. The crowd saw some semblence with humans, the elephants were the last day, they were probably stuffed by that time. Anyway Cicero said the crowd protested and didn't want the elephants killed, they thought it was vulgar.
All the anti-hunter arguments sound something like Cicero, don't they? We kill to eat, get it? I guess even back then, they felt for the animals sometimes and the anti hunter arguments abound, even here.
You forgot the costs of managing the federal land in your equation Moosie. That means federal dollars support 60% of Idaho. Are there very many Idaho people to pay that tax support they get? Its pretty complicated, accounting.
You guys stick to your TV shows. Maybe my grandkids will someday watch some real live stuff. I guess they could do it now at www.fantasyhunt.com, if I had any. You think they would learn anything about animal behavior there?
Its not a check to the individual, its more like a negative tax. You only pay a reduced instate tag fee, do to the support fromt he federal land supported by the federal funds and managed by a lot of out of state dollars on increased tag fees and Pittman-Robertson funds from the states back east. Where to we get how that money is raised and distributed? There must be a source for it.
One way to value the wildlife is as Moosie did there, the value of free market feed. They need a place to live too, how much is it to provide that. $0 for Idaho you say, the feds support you. Another word for that is sometimes, "welfare". Who started that "welfare" rancher phrase?
I used the family of 5, like 5 200lb people make one elk. Its not exactly right, but its an approximation. Does anybody know what it really costs to raise a Rocky Mountain elk? That's my question. Maybe somebody here is a wildlife accountant or knows one, if there is such a thing?
Do they have that in wildlife school, wildlife accounting? We have some people in wildlife school or who used to be, do you guys know? How much does it cost to raise a Rocky Mountain elk?
Moosie
Grand poopa
1-pointer, If you flatten out our Public land we'd blow All the other states out of the water... You must be quoting %'s from the Flat road system
Tom, I don't know what it cost to raise one. I only know how much the Bullet costs to take it down........
Tom, I don't know what it cost to raise one. I only know how much the Bullet costs to take it down........
Tom
New member
Hey cmc! You made an error in your title for this. Its not a game, its real. Most of TV and video is like that, its a game, not real. This is real, you can shoot for real on the internet at www.live-shot.com, if you want, I think, that's up. Hunting is in the works, but has some snags at the moment.
Its real, not a game. I guess you could play games with it, but its real, I thought I should point that out.
Its real, not a game. I guess you could play games with it, but its real, I thought I should point that out.
WapitiBob
Well-known member
good god, a fantasy hunt over a friggin feader. Does anybody in Texas actually know how to hunt without having to sit over a bait pile?
The more I watch the outdoor channel and the mens channel, the more disgusted I get with texas and companies like Wild Game innovations. They break open the bait bag before they climb their fat a$$ up in the recliner in the tower.
The more I watch the outdoor channel and the mens channel, the more disgusted I get with texas and companies like Wild Game innovations. They break open the bait bag before they climb their fat a$$ up in the recliner in the tower.
Tom
New member
sure
We don't have bait piles, that's some other state, we don't believe in those, its the wrong way to bait. But, its ok, if they want to do it up there or whereever they do it.
Why don't you stop watching TV and get out there and do something? You'll feel better.
We don't have bait piles, that's some other state, we don't believe in those, its the wrong way to bait. But, its ok, if they want to do it up there or whereever they do it.
Why don't you stop watching TV and get out there and do something? You'll feel better.
raybow 1
New member
Tom; I think one could get a fair assessment of how much it costs to raise a rocky if you were to take a tootsie roll tootsie pop and see how many licks it takes to get to the center of it. Once a man has this equasion figured out one could apply this knowledge to his memory bank a just say to hell with the romans.
The only question I have other than the tootsie roll tootsie pop is-isn't grass a renewable resourse and if so how long does it take to grow new. Maybe if a guy compared how many times he mowed his lawn in a given month one could come up with a much more accurate assumption given the elk didn't eat it before one mowed it. Those figures in short-are kinda irrelivant at best. Nobody runs behind these elk planting grass after they feed through the habitat. Just in case one doesn't know, grass is not the only source of food the elk eat. Oh ya what about the water they drink. Given that an average liter of water in the store is around $1.50 what would one estimate to be the cost of the water it drinks per day-(15-20 dollars)? Oops I guess we can't base it on that theory either because water is also known to be a renewable recource in the fact that it rains. You see how stupid I sound with all this!!
The only question I have other than the tootsie roll tootsie pop is-isn't grass a renewable resourse and if so how long does it take to grow new. Maybe if a guy compared how many times he mowed his lawn in a given month one could come up with a much more accurate assumption given the elk didn't eat it before one mowed it. Those figures in short-are kinda irrelivant at best. Nobody runs behind these elk planting grass after they feed through the habitat. Just in case one doesn't know, grass is not the only source of food the elk eat. Oh ya what about the water they drink. Given that an average liter of water in the store is around $1.50 what would one estimate to be the cost of the water it drinks per day-(15-20 dollars)? Oops I guess we can't base it on that theory either because water is also known to be a renewable recource in the fact that it rains. You see how stupid I sound with all this!!
Tom
New member
game=animal, got it. Elk don't drink bottled water, but there are probably some water maintenance issues that cost money, even in the national forests. Grass and water, and whatever else they need are renewable, but it costs some money to keep them, so they renew. Brush management, riparian area management. You know, like they stop the erosion with a dam or something, make a pond for fish and drinking. Like, we have 1 million elk on how many million acres? What's the value of an acre? Lease value, so my elk and your elk can graze it. I think thats where the $12/month came from in a paper I read on it.
I just got an e-mail news item from SCI president stating they are opposed to the internet hunt, he says its not hunting.
I just got an e-mail news item from SCI president stating they are opposed to the internet hunt, he says its not hunting.
raybow 1
New member
Tom, you need to quit reading so many books and open your eyes to the real world and how it works. The land does not charge me, you, the elk, the deer, the bear, or any other game that inhabits it. If you'll notice, the elk manage themselves, so according to the way you are thinking, the land needs to pay the elk and other animals for managing by brush cutting, pruning, mowing, and thinning so it can have optimum output of its recources. Don't you think the animals deserve a paycheck for land management and enhancement? I could take you to a test area whee the game dept. has an area fenced off. The reason is they want to compare the grazing area to the fenced area. You can't see two feet into that miserable brush hole.
And by the way, we all know elk don't drink bottled water-and there's your sign!! |oo
And by the way, we all know elk don't drink bottled water-and there's your sign!! |oo
Tom
New member
huh?
Don't they fence it off, to show how much of it is being eaten up by animals?
Who paid for that fence? Who goes and measures how much they ate? In the real world, that information costs money.
I'm thinking those fenced off areas help determine carrying capacity and if it is getting low.
Elk don't deserve a paycheck, but if we spend enough money and effort to manage them right, they will have good stuff to eat and we'll have lots of them to eat too.
How much do you figure they deserve, if you want to ask if they should have a paycheck and all?
Don't they fence it off, to show how much of it is being eaten up by animals?
Who paid for that fence? Who goes and measures how much they ate? In the real world, that information costs money.
I'm thinking those fenced off areas help determine carrying capacity and if it is getting low.
Elk don't deserve a paycheck, but if we spend enough money and effort to manage them right, they will have good stuff to eat and we'll have lots of them to eat too.
How much do you figure they deserve, if you want to ask if they should have a paycheck and all?
raybow 1
New member
The elk are not on the inside, they are on the outside!! As far as them not deserving compensation for their efforts is a direct reflection of a certain way of thinking. Do you put yourself above everything else on this planet?? I don't think you have the crudentials to put youself on that pedestal. If one thinks he is better, then he is usually lesser by his narrow minded way of thinking. This is exactly why we have what people refer to as hunting seasons. The sole purpose on paper is to manage and maintain the fish and game so they are at optimum levels according to the habitat which they inhabit. How much did it cost before man had money? Just because man invented the monetary system doesn't mean the fish and game agreed to pay!! Do you think it's right that they didn't get a vote? Who or what best interests is it in that the land costs money to manage? The point is that it doesn't cost shit unless a person wants it to. The land and its inhabitants maintain and control them and itself if left alone. You have to broaden your horizons and look from more than just a human perspective!
How much does it cost for a swift kick in the Ass!
How much does it cost for a swift kick in the Ass!
Tom
New member
I know the elk are on the outside. Am I above everything else? When it comes to my survival,yes. Kind of big question. There's things I'll die for.
What crudentials do you have, to think I put myself on that pedestal?
Before man had money is a bigger view, but pretty irrelevent now, money is a measuring stick for things now. Before that, the people would trade stuff, help each other out, etc. We'd have to ask them, but they're not around to ask.
I don't want the fish and elk to pay, I want those who utilize them to pay.
Yep, its right that they didn't get a vote. They are not voting citizens, they are animals.
Its in all of our best interests, animals and people, to manage the land. You could measure the cost in man hours if you don't like to use money.
I'll give you a swift kick in the ass for free, if you want it. I'm not that kind of guy though, so you'd have to really, really want it.
So, I need a nonhuman perspective? Like what, look through a fish eye lens?
What crudentials do you have, to think I put myself on that pedestal?
Before man had money is a bigger view, but pretty irrelevent now, money is a measuring stick for things now. Before that, the people would trade stuff, help each other out, etc. We'd have to ask them, but they're not around to ask.
I don't want the fish and elk to pay, I want those who utilize them to pay.
Yep, its right that they didn't get a vote. They are not voting citizens, they are animals.
Its in all of our best interests, animals and people, to manage the land. You could measure the cost in man hours if you don't like to use money.
I'll give you a swift kick in the ass for free, if you want it. I'm not that kind of guy though, so you'd have to really, really want it.
So, I need a nonhuman perspective? Like what, look through a fish eye lens?
raybow 1
New member
If you lived in a remote area and were forced to live off the land how relevant would money be then? My point is money doesn't apply to every person in this world like you think. What about the starvin Pigmys? Do you think they give a shit about how much something costs when running around looking for food to shoot? Not everything in this world has to have a price. As far as the swift kick in the ass-it wasn't directed at you but you read it exactly the way I knew you would. It just reiterates your narrow path of vision and it proves my point even more with your inability to not rationalize with common sense. You may be a very bright individual as most people with no common sense are!! Good luck in your quest with the tootsie roll tootsie pop!!
Tom
New member
huh?
Raybow. I live in a city of over a million. This is the United States, no pygmies in the rain forest.
It bugged me that people talk about welfare ranchers and I'm sitting here thinking, what about welfare hunters too.
Plus, it seems like a legitamate question I'd like to know, how much does it cost to raise a Rocky Mountain elk?
Its a way of thinking about things, economics. I guess its supposed to help focus on the objective reality of things and not just the emotional part.
We don't live like pygmies or aborigines or eskimos in the arctic. Alaska is the only state with subsistence hunting, isn't it? I don't know, I"m asking.
Raybow. I live in a city of over a million. This is the United States, no pygmies in the rain forest.
It bugged me that people talk about welfare ranchers and I'm sitting here thinking, what about welfare hunters too.
Plus, it seems like a legitamate question I'd like to know, how much does it cost to raise a Rocky Mountain elk?
Its a way of thinking about things, economics. I guess its supposed to help focus on the objective reality of things and not just the emotional part.
We don't live like pygmies or aborigines or eskimos in the arctic. Alaska is the only state with subsistence hunting, isn't it? I don't know, I"m asking.
raybow 1
New member
Washington as well as several other states have subsistence programs set up for tribal members of specific tribes in selected states. We happen to have 27 tribes state wide, maybe even more. Not all of them use the subsistence but a good many do.
