Sentimentality & Peep sighted Bolt

[Cheesehead]

Hi Hunt Talkers.

If you are a ‘does it work?’ hunter, this thread is not for you.

TL/DR: I own an FN Mauser 98 that I need to rebarrel/rechamber, and it needs to be peep sighted for sentimental reasons, but still useful for hunting. What to do?

Long version:

One of my favorite hunting books is American Hunting Rifles by Craig Boddington. In fact, I think it is the definitive (if now a bit dated) tome on the subject. At one point he mentioned that many hunters have ‘using rifles and looking rifles’ (ie stainless / synthetic vs blued / walnut), and disavowed the distinction. I mostly agree. It’s important then to anchor the discussion in the sense that this should be a gun that crosses both categories.

I grew up in a non-hunting family but my best friend was very into it and his dad was an extremely gifted gunsmith, at one point being the go-to American ‘checkering guy’ for Rigby rifles (he was even mentioned as a highly regarded gunsmith by Elmer Keith in, if I recall correctly, Guns & Ammo). Their family had a German bent, with a heavy emphasis that only Mauser 98s and (grudgingly) pre-64 Model 70s were permissible hunting rifles. The family shotgun was a Drilling, with twin 16s over an 8x57, and family lore included a story from Iowa in which a rooster was missed twice with the 16s and then knocked out of the sky with the 8mm (these were the 80s...everything was legal, I presume...even I was conceived halfway through the decade).

Fast forward to high school. I spent a ton of time with my friend and his dad, constantly talking about guns. We went to gun shows and scoffed at wood to metal fit and lines per inch, we critiqued guns displayed on this new thing called the Internet...it was a lot of fun. And tough for an impoverished youth (me) with high taste friends.

Side note—it took me decades to realize that gun nuts and hunters aren’t necessarily the same. I loved hunting and loved guns and assumed everyone did. I eventually realized that many (most?) gun nuts are too uninterested &/or poor to be hard core big game hunters.

So again, high school. I have a few guns now. And tinnitus because no one told me to wear ear plugs as I was ‘only’ regularly target shooting an 18” 243 Remington model 788. What’d you say???

Word came around that a nice FN 98 (Fabrique Nationale to the uninitiated...even more helpful, a Belgian made, decent quality Mauser 98) was for sale from my buddy’s dad’s friend. A 308 Norma Magnum...not common but very European and sexy. I borrow the last fifty bucks from my folks, and tell the man I’ll buy it.

It has a quirk... (See part 2)

 

[Cheesehead]

The owner put a peep sight on it, the type that is carved into the wood stock. I don’t need nor want a peep sight, and want full advantage of my new wolfengewehr (we mostly hunted coyotes at the time). Silly me, I immediately installed a scope mount and scope, causing immediate duplication through the drilling and tapping.

The plot thickens. My dad’s friend (the gunsmith checkerer) takes one look at the rifle and immediately says that it was his work. Long story short, he had done a stock job for an acquaintance years ago and it eventually traded around to a buddy and then (unbeknownst to parties) to me.

Fast forward a few years, and I am in clean up the gun cabinet mode.

I realized that over the years I haven’t become the reloader I anticipated I would become, which would’ve made the unit-cost economics work out. And factory 308 Norma Mag rounds are $3.50-$4 a pop. And I had a shiny new 300 Win Mag, making this cartridge redundant in the gun closet.

But I refuse to sell it due to 1) outstanding quality (it has ‘hand’ as they say, and silky buttery smooth action), 2) my best friend’s father is quite close to passing beyond this mortal coil and I’d like to have something to hold that I can remember him and our times together.

So now, dear reader, the question. First some pictures for reference.

 

[Cheesehead]

Sorry the delay. Toddler pooped in the bathtub, lol. As Vonnegut would say, ‘so it goes’.

Hokay, so the question of the hour:

I have an 8.5lb unscoped Mauser 98 currently chambered in 308 Norma. It has a stock that has sentimental value (ie, checkered by someone dear to me) but also with a cut out to be peep sighted (I actually love peep sights!).

I have this weird view that a rifle’s cartridge and optics should ‘match’...ie, a 1.5-5x 375 H&H seems right, a 3-9x is fine on a 308 but very sad on a 30-30 lever action.

So...what should I rebarrel this sucker to?

Current gun/fun cabinet has 243, 6.5, 270, 300 win mag from a centerfire perspective. What is lacking is anything in that medium-heavy to heavy range.

Realistic anticipated uses over the next 10 years: Alaska or similar large game (moose, large bears), heavy cover Roosevelt elk, possibly Cape Buffalo (other Big 5 are not in the cards).

Top candidates at present (cough cough...just now getting into reloading so let that assumption exist), in current order of preference: 9.3x62, 35 Whelen, 425 Westley Richards, 416 Taylor, 375 Ruger, 318 Westley Richards. The 318 stands out as I simply adore the cartridge and would love to have one. I understand the Cape Buffalo caliber minimum restrictions.

Input greatly appreciated!

 

[44hunter45]

I sure love a rifle with history. I'd be hard pressed to change it.

I know you said you don't (yet) handload, but it's simple to make 308 Norma from 300 Winchester, H&H, or Weatherby.

Having said that, my vote would be 35 Whelen. I have a 24 inch 1-12 built on a BCD Military 98. Currently with my gunsmith having a Winchester type 3 position safety put on it.
It's a great American cartridge. 35 Whelen external ballistics are very similar to .308.

I currently building a 358 Norma Mag on a Model 70 platform. My thinking is that if I can ever afford to go to Africa for the Big 5, I'll build a big bore.

When I had toddlers pooping in the tub, I never imagined a time when I could have more than my trusty M77 in .30-'06. I can't predict your future, but it's a good bet there are more rifles coming.

 

[MO Betta]

Piqued my interest, I'll be following this to see how it turns out. The 425WR is an interesting round.

 

[Cheesehead]

I sure love a rifle with history. I'd be hard pressed to change it.

I know you said you don't (yet) handload, but it's simple to make 308 Norma from 300 Winchester, H&H, or Weatherby.

Having said that, my vote would be 35 Whelen. I have a 24 inch 1-12 built on a BCD Military 98. Currently with my gunsmith having a Winchester type 3 position safety put on it.
It's a great American cartridge. 35 Whelen external ballistics are very similar to .308.

I currently building a 358 Norma Mag on a Model 70 platform. My thinking is that if I can ever afford to go to Africa for the Big 5, I'll build a big bore.

When I had toddlers pooping in the tub, I never imagined a time when I could have more than my trusty M77 in .30-'06. I can't predict your future, but it's a good bet there are more rifles coming.

Appreciate the input. My uncle had a Mauser 98 in 35 Whelen. I remember shooting it as a teenager and being wonderfully impressed. He always dreamt of taking it elk hunting but health prevented it. I’ve toyed with the idea of taking it myself one of these days (I always do at least one a Western trip each year for sanity) and fulfilling the dream. So far I’m 0/2 on elk and need all the karma I can get!
And let me know if you ever need a partner for Africa...only 34, but have been dreaming and scheming about it for more than couple decades!

 

[Cheesehead]

Piqued my interest, I'll be following this to see how it turns out. The 425WR is an interesting round.

Thanks. It has always struck me as one of the goofiest but coolest looking rounds of all time. Steeped in history like an overused teapot.

 

[44hunter45]

Appreciate the input. My uncle had a Mauser 98 in 35 Whelen. I remember shooting it as a teenager and being wonderfully impressed. He always dreamt of taking it elk hunting but health prevented it. I’ve toyed with the idea of taking it myself one of these days (I always do at least one a Western trip each year for sanity) and fulfilling the dream. So far I’m 0/2 on elk and need all the karma I can get!
And let me know if you ever need a partner for Africa...only 34, but have been dreaming and scheming about it for more than couple decades!

Pretty sure it will always be out of reach for me. And that's OK. I have my dad's plains game heads on my wall. Greater Kudu, Gemsbok, and Impala.

Idaho has been good to me. I begin my conquest of Alaska in 2021. I'm wanting to relocate, but Mrs45 says she will not move away from her grandchild.

I connected on elk my second trip to Idaho as a non-resident. Then after moving here shot one each of several years. Now it's probably an every other year thing. It's me and Mrs4r5 at home now, so we're always in meat.

 

[marksjeep]

Neat rifle, especially the history. I wouldn't change a thing either.

It's OK to have redundant rifles in the safe.....especially when one has sentimental value such as this.

 

[winmag]

Keep it unique and make your friend and mentor proud. Go with a 318 Westley Richards if that’s what excites you enough to spend the money to have the work done. If the cape buffalo hunt looks like it will materialize then go with the 425 so you can use this gun there.

Is your mentor in good enough health for you to ask for his input on which cartridge? I’m sure he would enjoy the conversation. And then if you can get the work done before he passes it will be a great reason to sit down and chat with him for a few hours one more time to admire his craftsmanship on the stock. And if it’s not done in time then have that conversation with his son, your friend, instead.

You’ll probably need to get into handloading but that’s part of the fun with keeping old and unique guns in the field. Surely your mentor was also a handloader?

 

[stk]

That stock looks very well done. It’s a very nice rifle, no question. I’m not understanding what’s driving the rebarrel. If it’s the cost or availability of factory ammo, you won’t be in any better shape with any of the calibers you listed with the exception of .35 whelen. Norma still sells very good quality .308 Norma mag ammo that would be very good for hunting bear or moose. It isn’t cheap, but neither is rebarreling a rifle. Do you expect to shoot it enough in the new caliber to really justify the expense? I expect it would be many hundreds of rounds before you would realize any cost benefit, even with the cheapest of the calibers you listed.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Another vote for the Whelen, or if you want to get full-on Teutonic, a 9mm Mauser. Using the .358 caliber bullet, you could get some fun results for a heavy woods thumper & 200 grain copper bullets.

Anything other than a magnum would require a new bolt face, though. If you want to keep the bolt the way it is 375 H&H or such would be the ticket.

 

[BrentD]

9.3 x 62

 

[Durango Mike]

The owner put a peep sight on it, the type that is carved into the wood stock. I don’t need nor want a peep sight, and want full advantage of my new wolfengewehr (we mostly hunted coyotes at the time). Silly me, I immediately installed a scope mount and scope, causing immediate duplication through the drilling and tapping.

The plot thickens. My dad’s friend (the gunsmith checkerer) takes one look at the rifle and immediately says that it was his work. Long story short, he had done a stock job for an acquaintance years ago and it eventually traded around to a buddy and then (unbeknownst to parties) to me.

Fast forward a few years, and I am in clean up the gun cabinet mode.

I realized that over the years I haven’t become the reloader I anticipated I would become, which would’ve made the unit-cost economics work out. And factory 308 Norma Mag rounds are $3.50-$4 a pop. And I had a shiny new 300 Win Mag, making this cartridge redundant in the gun closet.

But I refuse to sell it due to 1) outstanding quality (it has ‘hand’ as they say, and silky buttery smooth action), 2) my best friend’s father is quite close to passing beyond this mortal coil and I’d like to have something to hold that I can remember him and our times together.

So now, dear reader, the question. First some pictures for reference. View attachment 168614View attachment 168615View attachment 168616

Try the much underappreciated 358 Norma, great round with brass not much a problem (if you can't find it I will send you some), same bolt face. I think you would have issues with a 375 H&H cartridge length. I shoot one that was bumped up to 350 Ackley and it is super accurate medium bore. I have always liked the 308 Norma versus the 300 win mag for the longer necked case gave potentially better bullet/bore alignment. If you are considering Africa just keep in mind the more exotic calibers are hard to find if somehow your ammo does not arrive (had that happen to a pal with a 416 Hoffman).

 

[Harrier]

I bought an FN Mauser 98 over the summer and immediately sent it to my gunsmith to have a vintage Lyman peep sight installed. It’s currently in .30-06, but I bought it with the notion that eventually I’d rebarrel it to 9.3x62 and take it on safari in Africa.

So my vote is for 9.3x62 so you can tell me how it all works out.

 

[Cheesehead]

Well, after some rumination, the plan is to go the original 1st choice of 9.3x62 and add the peep. Always wanted one and seems to be the right fit. Managed to tie off with my friend and his dad for the blessing!
Really excited about this gun. I’ll post up some pics if COVID doesn’t whack me /us all before then. Thanks all for the input.