Are you referring to the new Titan? Aside from needing a lift, in what way is an F150 inferior off road?
Sell me a new truck
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
Are you referring to the new Titan? Aside from needing a lift, in what way is an F150 inferior off road?
The Raptor is an incredible truck! This is a friends. He has jumped it and driven it hard around a motocross track numerous times. It's still his daily driver. Tows a large Mastercraft ski boat regularly too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D293JE35vPE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D293JE35vPE
No, referring to the existing Titan, as I do not know the exact specs on the new gas model of Titan.
The F-150 has the lowest clearance of the four being considered, requiring a higher lift. Has molding that improves MPG that will be destroyed in off-road situations. Very flimsy skid plates over gas tank. Total length is longer than Tundra (by 3") and Titan (by 7"). Lower clearance causes it to have the lowest approach angle, lowest departure angle, and lowest break over angle.
These are just some facts of how the F-150 is designed. Just as the engine/tranny are the reason so many people buy it for an all-around work truck and a hunting truck if they are not doing to it what I do to a truck.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Some of this you have covered some maybe not but remember things dont always perform at a level that equals the specsheet.
So....To play devil's advocate.
Obviously every truck is going to come with compromise's it seems as though you are looking more at problems without much thought to how complicated the solutions are.
A few examples
Although not commonly in stock at the local tire store's chain's for larger tires are very available online and are usually better built because they are for industrial applications like construction and mining.
The wheel spacers for the tundra are available but they do cause some other problems with tire scrub while turning (i can elaborate) and accelerated bearing and ball joint wear. The same problem's exist with offset wheels.
Most open rear diffs have a aftermarket selectable locker available.
When you think of clearance there are other considerations than the factory numbers
First the break over clearance, approach and departure angles. This can be changed with a small lift just dont go cheep.
Also you must consider a few other things
rear differential clearance.
Rear shock brackets hanging below axle tube?
These can only be changed by adding larger tires.
Is the axle high pinion or low pinion?
This will dictate whether or not you turn your rear driveshaft into a pretzel on a rock and try to go home in front wheel drive.
You mentioned larger tires affecting the torque applied to the ground. This will have so many variables if you mean on the road than engine out put and final drive ratio will dictate whether or not a f150 on 33" tall tires will apply more torque than a tundra on stocker's(it very likely will). If you mean torque applied in low range than you would need to multiply engine torque through the first gear of the transmission then the transfer case low ratio and finally the rear axle ratio to get your crawl ratio of each. This is all for not for two reasons first on an auto the torque converter has the ability to multiply the number in incalculable ways and second most manufacturers are derating power when trucks are in low range to make the drivetrains survive through warranty
So....To play devil's advocate.
Obviously every truck is going to come with compromise's it seems as though you are looking more at problems without much thought to how complicated the solutions are.
A few examples
Although not commonly in stock at the local tire store's chain's for larger tires are very available online and are usually better built because they are for industrial applications like construction and mining.
The wheel spacers for the tundra are available but they do cause some other problems with tire scrub while turning (i can elaborate) and accelerated bearing and ball joint wear. The same problem's exist with offset wheels.
Most open rear diffs have a aftermarket selectable locker available.
When you think of clearance there are other considerations than the factory numbers
First the break over clearance, approach and departure angles. This can be changed with a small lift just dont go cheep.
Also you must consider a few other things
rear differential clearance.
Rear shock brackets hanging below axle tube?
These can only be changed by adding larger tires.
Is the axle high pinion or low pinion?
This will dictate whether or not you turn your rear driveshaft into a pretzel on a rock and try to go home in front wheel drive.
You mentioned larger tires affecting the torque applied to the ground. This will have so many variables if you mean on the road than engine out put and final drive ratio will dictate whether or not a f150 on 33" tall tires will apply more torque than a tundra on stocker's(it very likely will). If you mean torque applied in low range than you would need to multiply engine torque through the first gear of the transmission then the transfer case low ratio and finally the rear axle ratio to get your crawl ratio of each. This is all for not for two reasons first on an auto the torque converter has the ability to multiply the number in incalculable ways and second most manufacturers are derating power when trucks are in low range to make the drivetrains survive through warranty
Speeddmn
Active member
Something to consider, is bed length. Randy will be using this pickup daily and for hunting. Aftermarket the crap out of basically everything but you can't make the bed longer. His needs will require him to have a longer bed then what the Tundra TRD Pro, and the Nissan Pro 4X can offer. Does he gain the longer bed with smaller cab space or take the cab space over the bed length?
Personally, I've never been a fan of Nissan, or Toyota. I know they work, I know they last. I am a Ford/GMC/Chevy guy. But, this is me, and he has asked our opinions. I am betting he isn't going to buy a new pickup and have to toss more money toward it in aftermarket equipment just so it can perform to his standards. On that note, a few changes wont sacrifice much in MPG. If I were to do it over again I would buy a new F150 EcoBoost FX4 if you know you will tow 11k lbs, if not the 5.0L would be fine. Toss a set of quality All Terrain tires on it and a Rancho QuickLift on the front. I'd ditch the air dam's up front and add a 1 inch block to the rear to keep the rake for towing.
Personally, I've never been a fan of Nissan, or Toyota. I know they work, I know they last. I am a Ford/GMC/Chevy guy. But, this is me, and he has asked our opinions. I am betting he isn't going to buy a new pickup and have to toss more money toward it in aftermarket equipment just so it can perform to his standards. On that note, a few changes wont sacrifice much in MPG. If I were to do it over again I would buy a new F150 EcoBoost FX4 if you know you will tow 11k lbs, if not the 5.0L would be fine. Toss a set of quality All Terrain tires on it and a Rancho QuickLift on the front. I'd ditch the air dam's up front and add a 1 inch block to the rear to keep the rake for towing.
I have a suspicion you deal in this trade, or it seems that way, based on the insightful comments you provided here. Talking to a friend in the after-market business, he mentioned many of the same things you did. After a lot of discussion I went back to the drawing board to see what I absolutely need and what I don't, Thanks to his input, it resulted in me wanting to do as few "after-market" upgrades as possible. Both for price and for practicality.
He helped me sort it out to this, as far as after-market work this truck will have:
1. 2" lift. No more than that. To many other complications come into play when you go higher than that and the benefits are marginal for someone who has a bit of experience behind the wheel. To your point of clearance, the rear axle and shock brackets on the Titan are the best design, by a long stretch. Some say that is why others can provide a car-like ride. I get that, but I have two cars, I need a hunting truck.
2. Stick with some style of 18" tires. Much larger tires again add a lot of complications to long-term durability, unless one makes a lot of other changes.
3. Custom bumper to accommodate a Warn winch. I have this on my current truck and after putting this on, I will never have a hunting truck without it. My current bumper is made by Buck Stop Truckwear. It is a beast.
4. Rocking rear differential if need be, if I were to choose the Tundra.
5. Topper and cargo bracket to on/around topper. My last six trucks have had toppers. Absolutely necessity for the amount of gear we have with us while driving to a location and driving from camp to the trailhead. I have abused and broken so many toppers, I could probably do a lengthy thread just on toppers. I want a cargo bracket that will hold my extra spare tire (I never travel without 2 spares, sometimes 3) and my hi-lift jack. They take up too much space under the topper.
2. Stick with some style of 18" tires. Much larger tires again add a lot of complications to long-term durability, unless one makes a lot of other changes.
3. Custom bumper to accommodate a Warn winch. I have this on my current truck and after putting this on, I will never have a hunting truck without it. My current bumper is made by Buck Stop Truckwear. It is a beast.
4. Rocking rear differential if need be, if I were to choose the Tundra.
5. Topper and cargo bracket to on/around topper. My last six trucks have had toppers. Absolutely necessity for the amount of gear we have with us while driving to a location and driving from camp to the trailhead. I have abused and broken so many toppers, I could probably do a lengthy thread just on toppers. I want a cargo bracket that will hold my extra spare tire (I never travel without 2 spares, sometimes 3) and my hi-lift jack. They take up too much space under the topper.
My goal is to get by with nothing more than those after-market upgrades. The list of what a guy could do is lengthy and could cost over $10K if you went full-bore. Not going there.
If I buy an F-150, I will need to do the most upgrades. If I buy a Power Wagon, I will need to do the fewest upgrades.
I am waiting for the Nissan engineers to give me the specs of the new V8 gas models for the Titan that is due out in early to mid-2016. It will not be the beast the new Titan XD is, but I suspect it will have a lot of very useful and practical features. If they have a model that is off-road ready as the current Pro4X model, they will have a winner on their hands for guys looking to use it the way I do.
One consideration that I have not mentioned is price. Right now, of all the rigs I have looked at there are some very big price differences and I am scratching my head as to why the prices are that different. The most expensive of those I am considering is the Ram Power Wagon. The least expensive is the Nissan Titan. The F-150 FX4 and the Tundra TRD Pro are both about the same, depending upon what packages you add to the F-150. The range from highest to lowest is a difference of $12,000. That is a lot of money and had best come with some valuable benefits to justify that price difference.
Randy:
I will second the motion for you to start a thread on toppers and cargo brackets. Good-Bad and Ugly. I have only found the bad and ugly method to protect gear in the bed of a pickup.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
I do regularly deal in the off-road industry unfortunately I tend to play more of a supporting role as the one writing the check's. Really I'm a mechanic/offroader and have setup a few rigs with the same goals in mind. I may have more hours in first gear low range and installing lockers than most of our local 4x4 club members.
I set up my current rig to perform like I think you intend to. I went about it in a different way. I left my f150 mostly stock and chose to tow a small jeep behind it. My jeep is setup with hunting in mind-
95 jeep wrangler
Front/rear lockers
Sway bar disconnect's
Warn m8000 winch
2.5" high quality soft ride lift
Little 30x9.5 mud tires with chain's
A highlift,
straps,
snatch block's (I can winch sidways and backwards)
A land anchor because I never get stuck near something to hook the winch to.
Consider a land anchor!
I set up my current rig to perform like I think you intend to. I went about it in a different way. I left my f150 mostly stock and chose to tow a small jeep behind it. My jeep is setup with hunting in mind-
95 jeep wrangler
Front/rear lockers
Sway bar disconnect's
Warn m8000 winch
2.5" high quality soft ride lift
Little 30x9.5 mud tires with chain's
A highlift,
straps,
snatch block's (I can winch sidways and backwards)
A land anchor because I never get stuck near something to hook the winch to.
Consider a land anchor!
RingneckGSP
New member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Messages
- 12
I have had very good experiences with my 2013 Ford F150 Crew Cab with the 3.5 Ecoboost. My ride is smooth but could be smoother if I didn't run 10 ply tires. It currently has 107k Miles. The cab has an incredible amount of room. The engine has much more power than my 2005 Chevy Silverado 1/2 ton and much more rear cab room (rear seat also folds up if you are storing coolers or other large items. I pull a 16 foot gooseneck loaded with 2 horses easily. You may need a front leveling kit if your running a winch. I typically get 16-18 mpg highway and 10-12 mpg pulling. I like the XLT package that has the 40/20/40 split bench front seat with the armrest that folds up for more front cab space for an extra passenger or gear. I am from the Midwest so my primary off roading consists of driving in a lot of deep snow, corn fields, and dirt roads. My tow package also has a rear locking differential that can be handy in certain situations, a rear decent control when pulling, and a factory trailer brake system. I was hesitant on buying a "V6" but have been very impressed with the power of this engine.
mtmander
Active member
question, do you prefer a "selectable" locker to allows the driver to lock and unlock the differential at will from the driver's seat ? do you get lockable differentials on front and back ?
I am on my second Ford with the 3.5 Ecoboost. After owning the first one it was a no brainer to get another one. Drove the 1st one to just over 100k no troubles. The current on got a few upgrades, big fuel tank (36 gallons) and a backup screen, really like that to hook up trailers and just to get out of tight spots. This engine will pull more than the 5.0 ford and will destroy a chevy 5.3. I owned a chevy before the Ecoboost so I know what I'm talking about. I pull a heavy 18 foot glass boat, no problem at all and used to pull a 28 foot camper, hardly new it was back there. Good luck in your search for a new ride!!
ShootsManyBullets
Well-known member
I've done pretty much what Fin has done to his truck to my Tundra the last 5 years and have been completely impressed with my Tundra. My buddies and I have crapped our pants looking back at the places I've taken that thing in CO, WY, MT, NV, OR and points in between on our hunts.
It's comfortable to drive and ride in the back seat, has power and kicks a$$ off road. Mileage isn't awesome but after over 100k on the odometer it still hasn't needed any repairs which is a flipping miracle IMO b/c I've ridden it hard so I'll trade a little economy for reliability and comfort while driving.
For a second I thought Luke Duke had a pick of my truck! I've got about a dozen pics of mine with similar coatings of mud and crud.
It's comfortable to drive and ride in the back seat, has power and kicks a$$ off road. Mileage isn't awesome but after over 100k on the odometer it still hasn't needed any repairs which is a flipping miracle IMO b/c I've ridden it hard so I'll trade a little economy for reliability and comfort while driving.
For a second I thought Luke Duke had a pick of my truck! I've got about a dozen pics of mine with similar coatings of mud and crud.
I agree this is the problem. Most people don't use their truck as a truck. They expect them to ride and perform just as smooth, quiet and comfortable as a luxury car.
Very few if any are actually made to be used off-road anymore. Hence the lack of clearance for chains or tires a size or two larger.
It's no longer possible to buy a truck with manual hubs, manual window cranks and non-electric door locks.
Have we become a society of wimps? We can't roll down the window by hand? Heaven forbid we have to get out of the truck to lock the hubs and maybe get our boots dirty.
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TimeOnTarget
Well-known member
Well said Gr8. All the new trucks with all the traction control crap has no place in a vehicle that leaves the pavement.
A society of wimps??? lets not get started on that topic!
The fact that trucks now come with worthless, 4-ply, gum-soft tires is prima facie evidence that the truck world has gone soft. The day I get a new truck, I go down to the local tire shop and they give me a $25 credit for each tire when I swap them out for 10-ply.
That said, I'm never going back to hubs you must get out and lock in. That's not a good feature when you realize you needed 4WD, but find yourself in water up to your door panels.
That said, I'm never going back to hubs you must get out and lock in. That's not a good feature when you realize you needed 4WD, but find yourself in water up to your door panels.
I have an 07 TRD DC tundra and for chains up front put 1 1/4" hub centric wheel spacers up front and you will clear chains. Don't get a pro you can do better with aftermarket. King OEM coil overs are far superior than the pro bilstiens. Auburn makes a nice locker non selectable but it's $600 vs. ARB$1200 selectable, for the front ARB is the only option as far as lockers go. Personally next time I ferry down south I'm going the auburn route.
