Scoring question?

[npaden]

So on the elk my son just shot it has an oddity where the tip to tip spread is the greatest inside spread of the main beams.

His mains beams do the normal widen out then come back in but after the 5th point they flare back out.

It isn’t a lot but where you would normally measure the inside spread around the 4ths he is 34 4/8” and the true tip to tip is 38”.



B = 38” and D = 34 4/8”

Don’t think we are going to get him to net book but it would be very close if he didn’t have a broken G3 on his left side.



Mass is over 63”.

Biggest thing hurting him on score I didn’t really even notice before starting to tape him is that his left G1 is quite a bit shorter than his right. His left G3 is shorter because it is obviously broken.

If his left matched his right he would make minimum for sure.

Thanks, Nathan

 

[antlerradar]

If the main beams are essentially the same length as one another the inside spread measurement could be nearly the same as width as the tip to tip spread if the bulls antlers gradually (not excessively) widen.

Right out of the scoring manual. Would probably have to see the rack in person in order to make the call on if the widening is gradual or excessive. Ether way, great bull.

 

[antlerradar]

I must also add that since the inside spread measurement is taken at a right angle to the long axis of the skull and parallel to the skull cap it is highly unlikely that the tip to tip and inside spread will be the same measurement, but not impossible.

 

[npaden]

It almost seems like an optical illusion that the tips are wider than the inside spread where you would normally take it but when you measure it that’s what it is.

The left side does flare out a bit. Doesn’t really seem excessive to me.

 

[seeth07]

View attachment 299797View attachment 299798
It almost seems like an optical illusion that the tips are wider than the inside spread where you would normally take it but when you measure it that’s what it is.

The left side does flare out a bit. Doesn’t really seem excessive to me.

I think you are getting it longer there because the very end points don't physically stop in the exact same geometric z and y axis if your measurement is along the x axis. Thus the illusion.

 

[antlerradar]

I don't see any flare on the right, but the left is a different story. Still I would want to see it in person and I may still send a picture up to B&C just to be sure. seeth07 is right, inside spread in not going to be tip to tip. Still it is a great bull regardless of the few inches a different inside spread is going to subtract.

 

[wytex]

Found this but not from the B&C website.

Measuring and Scoring Rocky Mountain Elk - B&C Club Official Guide | Pro Insight

The American elk (Cervus canadensis) closely resembles the red deer of Europe and Asia and is now regarded by mammologists as belonging in the same species.

journalofmountainhunting.com

 

[npaden]

Thanks.

That is pretty close to what mine does. Looks like 368 1/8" gross is what it is. Still very happy with that. I was thinking 340" or so before I put a tape on him. His right side just surprised me when I measured his G3 at 22" and then got 21" on his G1 and G2 on that side. Those numbers start adding up pretty quick.

Son is ecstatic. He put the antlers on his top bunk in his bedroom for now. LOL.

 

[npaden]

Thanks for the input. It is amazing that they have it so dialed in on the scoring stuff. Sometimes it isn't the answer you want but it is consistent. He wasn't going to net minimum either way. This way I keep my bragging rights for sure with my big bull although his technically has more inches of antler, mine makes book with a 41" inside spread and his doesn't with a 34 4/8" inside spread. If he had the extra 6 4/8" of air between his beams he would be right on the line.

 

[npaden]

Looking at the picture from above you can see that the curve on his left and right side don't quite match up. If I just measured from where the 4th is on both sides it gets a decent number. Close to that same 38" for the tip to tip. But keeping it parallel I end up with the 34 4/8" with the tape on where the 4th is on the left side but on the right side to be parallel it has to be about 3" or so in front of the G4 on the right side. Red line = 34 4/8". Looking at it like this the blue line is tip to tip and it isn't parallel so the "maximum inside spread wouldn't be the tip to tip but it would still be longer than the red line if I moved it forward a bit on the right beam. Would probably end up 37" or so. But wytex information clearly shows that isn't okay to measure it that way with the flare on the back.

 

[npaden]

I think the key to shooting big bulls is shooting the first bull you see. That's worked for us anyway! I had a screenshot of the Colorado regulations for a legal bull with the 5" brow tine or 4 points on one side of 1" or more to make sure we didn't mess up and shoot one that wasn't legal!

 

[wytex]

Email B&C, they will respond. Would be pretty neat for it to make for your son.

 

[npaden]

Even if I give it the full tip to tip of 38" we are 4" short on the net. I'm not an official scorer by any means, but was just a couple inches off when I had my bull officially measured so I don't think we are going to find 4". It could happen though. I intentionally didn't "stretch the tape" on any measurements but didn't leave them intentionally short either. I thought about calling up the guy that scored mine but I feel bad because I never did enter mine even though he made it. It takes about an hour it seemed like for them to measure and you can't tip or pay anything to them so I don't want to waste someone's time.

 

[Elktrack]

I wouldn’t worry about feeling like you’re wasting their time. The scorers I know love doing it and geek out on it. Maybe have the conversation ahead of time and if you feel weird about it then don’t do it but it’d be cool for your son to know. Serious braggin rights with his buddies

 

[rogerthat]

Interesting topic. Inside spread on this bull is 50” near the tips but I suspect that’s not his score-able inside spread as I believe that’s what excessive flair is?

 

[rogerthat]

What is net book? I thought it was 375 anyway.

 

[antlerradar]

What is net book? I thought it was 375 anyway.

360 awards, 375 all time book

 

[The Hedgehog]

bummer some criteria on animals' gross scores has to include a "shape" measurement and not just "size".

That bull elk is a monster.

 

[npaden]

Interesting topic. Inside spread on this bull is 50” near the tips but I suspect that’s not his score-able inside spread as I believe that’s what excessive flair is?

I think yours is pretty much just like the one in wytex post. Seems like yours would get measured at the widest inside spread right behind the 4ths.

 

[npaden]

Thanks for the scoring help. I might just go put a tape on him one more time to make sure.

When I started taping him I really thought he was a 350" bull so didn't even have it in my head that a few inches here or there might be the difference between making minimum or not. Not saying that I am going to stretch the tape but I will be more careful on where I start my measurements along the main beam. When I had mine scored they used masking tape and then a pencil to trace where the main beam would have been and then measured from that. I just kind of eyeballed it and picked a spot.

Biggest thing I learned having mine scored was to not just measure mass in the middle between the tines but to go back and forth and find the smallest circumference. I think I did that pretty well. Biggest judgement call to me is the 5th coming off the main beam at an angle and where exactly to start that measurement.