Rule of First Blood

[El Jason]

Maybe another reason to dislike CA. The "first blood" regulation relies on the pursuit of animal. Part (a) states it's unlawful; to take, mutilate, or destroy game lawfully in possession of another.
Fish and Game Code 2011(b) a bird or mammal shall be deemed in possession when it is actually reduced to physical possession or when it is wounded or otherwise maimed and the person who wounded or maimed it is in hot pursuit.

Same basic law applies in ID, WY, and MT. You have to reduce it to possession, i.e. it's dead.

 

[BucksnDucks]

Not in many western states.

I guess CA always has to be different F&G Code 2011

 

[BucksnDucks]

Same basic law applies in ID, WY, and MT. You have to reduce it to possession, i.e. it's dead.

I'm not sure if you mean the CA code is same as ID,WY,MT or CA is unique. In the regulation I'm quoting the hot pursuit takes possession over the physical possession (dead animal). I'm not stating my opinion on who is ethically correct to take the animal, just what this particular regulation states.

 

[El Jason]

I'm not sure if you mean the CA code is same as ID,WY,MT or CA is unique. In the regulation I'm quoting the hot pursuit takes possession over the physical possession (dead animal). I'm not stating my opinion on who is ethically correct to take the animal, just what this particular regulation states.

I'm not sure what I was saying either. Looks like CA is different in that it honors pursuit as possession.

 

[BucksnDucks]

I'm not sure what I was saying either. Looks like CA is different in that it honors pursuit as possession.

Yea, not trying to hijack thread with "law talk" because in end it just "depends". My personal opinion relies on distance, time, and lethality of shot as to who "deserves" possession.

 

[LopeHunter]

First blood opinions, leaving a beat up lawn chair on a public water hole, claiming to "own" a public camping spot though arrive after some other hunter has set up camp, multiple hunters camping within yards of each other in a remote drainage or merely hunting the same remote drainage are each situations where often the law is not useful to quote 5 miles from the trailhead or maybe the law simply does not exist. I decided a long time ago that the fastest way to spoil an adventure was to be around other people that do not share my values. I tend to only put in for tags with low numbers or I seek out an advantage such as horses to go deep or access to private land. A drive along a road after hunting season that has multiple campsites will reveal just how inconsiderate some of our brethren are by looking at the trash on the ground and things like lag screws in trees, etc. No way I want to voluntarily share the woods with those folks.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

First blood opinions, leaving a beat up lawn chair on a public water hole, claiming to "own" a public camping spot though arrive after some other hunter has set up camp, multiple hunters camping within yards of each other in a remote drainage or merely hunting the same remote drainage are each situations where often the law is not useful to quote 5 miles from the trailhead or maybe the law simply does not exist. I decided a long time ago that the fastest way to spoil an adventure was to be around other people that do not share my values. I tend to only put in for tags with low numbers or I seek out an advantage such as horses to go deep or access to private land. A drive along a road after hunting season that has multiple campsites will reveal just how inconsiderate some of our brethren are by looking at the trash on the ground and things like lag screws in trees, etc. No way I want to voluntarily share the woods with those folks.

Smart thought process. For awhile I felt that everyone else in the woods was like myself, until one day I saw two guys sighting in a rifle at the range, and rather than walking back and forth from the bench, he had is buddy stand arms length from the target to report where he hit. It was at that moment that I realized people are generally stupid and shouldn't be trusted....

But we can't always get away from other people so I try to make the best of it. I hope I never end up in a match of two bullets/arrows in an animal trying to figure out who gets to keep said animal. What really frightens me about that, is both parties are armed to some extent... :\

 

[Jape]

My grandpa shot a bull elk years ago and had just inserted his knife into the neck to cut the jugular and drain the blood (old school) when the bull jumped up, staggered for a second, and then ran off over the nearby hill. After the initial shock, my grandpa grabbed his rifle in pursuit when he heard a shot over the hill. He walked over to find another hunter standing over the bull. My grandpa said, "Thanks for finishing my bull off." The other hunter replied, "What are you talking about, that is my bull." My grandpa looked at him and said, "Then why is my knife in his neck?" The other hunter said, "Mister, if you can run that fast the elk is yours."

There is a lot of nuance in these statutes/situations, but in general if I mortally hit an animal and am in pursuit of it to claim possession, it should be mine. However, if I have made a non-mortal shot and another hunter kills it, then it should be their kill.

 

[ashersdad]

Opening day of the WY deer season over 20 years ago. I'm sitting glassing a meadow when a nice buck comes running through like all hell has broke loose. He runs literally 30 yards from me and I pull up and shoot and he drops. When I get over to him I notice his jaw is almost blown off. Not my shot. My shot was in the front shoulders/chest. I didn't know what to do but nobody came along so I notched my tag and started quartering the deer. After an hour or so and I'm just finishing up along come 3 guys on horses. Guess one of them had shot the buck first thing in the morning and the buck dropped. Must have knocked it out I guess because according to them they walked up and leaned their guns against a tree and when the shooter grabbed the bucks antlers, it jumped up and took off running. There was not a blood trail but they had been looking in the direction it had ran. Well I had already notched my tag and quartered the buck but I'll tell you the shooter was madder than hell. He wanted the deer. Sorry bud, my tag is notched. Finally after alot of bitching from him they took off in a huff. Oh well, live and learn I guess... Had they come along right after I shot it, I probably would have let them have it if they'd been civil about it.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I'll comply with whatever state laws have to say on the matter. Beyond that, I go by the following:
-I'll fill my tag any time I see a wounded animal.
-if someone else wants to claim it, they can have it (bonus for me - I get to keep hunting)
-I try to recover animals on public as quickly as possible. Strangers can and do cut the horns off and leave the rest of a fresh carcass. I've had this happen to me once and have heard it happen to Others too

 

[Bambistew]

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this one. Each situation is different. IMO I don't want someone elses animal, but if I kill it and no one shows up to claim it, its mine now. If you gut shoot one, you really don't deserve to claim it. There is no way you could with certainty know if you could recover that animal and it not be spoiled. IMO if somone else cleans up your mess, they deserve to keep it if they want it.

I gave an elk away one time. I got into them in the trees at close range and tipped one over, and then some other hunters started shooting as they rest fled the trees. No other elk fell over before they got away. The others were lobbing lead 350+ away. I circled around and found no other blood, went back to the elk I'd shot to find a guy and his son standing next to it. The dad was congratulating his son, and I did the same. I walked off about 200 yards away form them and saw a 6pt standing nearly where they dad and son had been shooting from, lined up and tipped him over. One of the best days elk hunting I've ever had. haha

When I was 16-17, I had a guy kill an elk seconds after I'd double lunged him. The bull was spraying blood out both sides as he ran off. He made it about 30-40 yards around a small ridge visible to another hunter, who shot and "killed" him. I was a little pissed about it, but ended up killing a bull the next day. In that situation, IMO, it was pretty f'd up for a grown ass man to steal an elk from a kid. The guy was an "upstanding" member of the USFWS. He didn't know me, but I knew him, small towns are a funny thing... That guy was a real winner. Some people just get stupid after killing an animal. I'd just as soon let someone else have it and get to keep hunting. Totally ruins an experience for everyone.

 

[onpoint]

Some interesting takes thus far. Two points I'll make.

1) Depends on the laws in that state. Most states say the person who reduces it to possession (i.e. kills it) is who legally tags it
2) Ethics and laws don't always agree here. If you are the second shooter, and you tell the other person to tag it and keep hunting, you are now in violation of the law because you a) killed an animal and did not tag it, and b) killed an animal and continued to hunt.

As far as Montana goes - that's THE LAW(s). I can unequivocally tell you that's the way it is. No gray - those apply to everyone.

This Montana hunter has his own set of internal reg's. I have before suffered from my own incompetence and "lost" an animal. My fault, my problem. Can't whine and bitch if somebody else put their tag on it. In addition, upon returning home after the unfortunate incident - I threw my tag in the woodstove. And thus imposed a finished hunting season upon myself. That my version of ethics in this situation.

The latter doesn't apply to everyone as do the laws.

I can only hope my version of ethics is, at the very least, as "ethical" as the laws are intended to be. My problem comes when other's version doesn't align with mine - and that, also, is MY problem........

And I have, with perfect comfort, finished other's people incompetence. Again, my version....................................

............this may be colored by the fact that I have witnessed literally hundreds of wounded elk floundering about in various stages of impending mortality (if they were at all lucky)................

 

[elkduds]

This time of year I read first blood threads, ethics of long rage hunting threads, "dang animal disappeared w my perfectly good arrow (or bullet)" threads. In my ongoing effort to keep my life simple, I am very conservative in deciding whether to take the shot. I have no interest in subjecting any animal or myself to the misadventures of wounding. I am sure I have passed on shots most others would have taken, and not because I was unsure about hitting the animal. I didn't shoot because I wasn't certain that animal would be dead within a very short time and distance as a result of that one shot. That is how I was raised, and that ethic has served me well in the field.

Over 50 years of hunting I have seen far too many wounded animals trying to flee; found far too many unrecovered carcasses killed by others and wasted; heard the question "Did you see my animal I shot run past here?" far too many times. I get it. A lot of people don't take killing an animal as seriously as I do. Most hunters did not have the critical oversight of their hunting actions that I "enjoyed" during my many seasons afield w my relatives. Still, I do not understand how we as hunters can witness and pass off deliberate cruelty, laziness, gross negligence, irresponsibility, and general assholiness as, "that's just hunting." It isn't. That is slob hunting. It is a major reason I mostly hunt alone.

 

[RockinU]

I am sure I have passed on shots most others would have taken, and not because I was unsure about hitting the animal. I didn't shoot because I wasn't certain that animal would be dead within a very short time and distance as a result of that one shot. That is how I was raised, and that ethic has served me well in the field.

I think that is a very admirable ethic, but in my experience that certainty is hard to get. In the 12 years I've run a tracking dog business, I've seen double lunged deer run ridiculous distances. The craziest thing I've ever seen is an old buck with a .270 hole through the bottom of his heart that I recovered 420 straight line yards from the hit site, and he didn't go in a straight line, so somehow he ran farther than that. I've also seen the opposite, year before last I recovered a bow shot deer that the arrow had just passed through his upper front leg without entering the body cavity that piled up in thick brush about 50 yards away. Think I still have pics of that, but the point is that even with waiting for the ideal shot, and making good on it, sometimes these incredible animals will still cover enough country to lead to problems such as this...

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

For me personally I would say a lot of it depends on the state of mind of the other hunter. If they want to argue about who's it is they can have it. Not worth getting in a pissing match with an armed hunter.

 

[marshman]

I would end the suffering of an animal if that was the obvious situation. Tagging it is a different story. I want my tagged animals to be killed by me, with fair chase ethics.
I do not want to be a part of someone else's hunt in any way.

 

[elkduds]

This time of year I read first blood threads, ethics of long rage hunting threads, "dang animal disappeared w my perfectly good arrow (or bullet)" threads. In my ongoing effort to keep my life simple, I am very conservative in deciding whether to take the shot. I have no interest in subjecting any animal or myself to the misadventures of wounding. I am sure I have passed on shots most others would have taken, and not because I was unsure about hitting the animal. I didn't shoot because I wasn't certain that animal would be dead within a very short time and distance as a result of that one shot. That is how I was raised, and that ethic has served me well in the field.

Over 50 years of hunting I have seen far too many wounded animals trying to flee; found far too many unrecovered carcasses killed by others and wasted; heard the question "Did you see my animal I shot run past here?" far too many times. I get it. A lot of people don't take killing an animal as seriously as I do. Most hunters did not have the critical oversight of their hunting actions that I "enjoyed" during my many seasons afield w my relatives. Still, I do not understand how we as hunters can witness and pass off deliberate cruelty, laziness, gross negligence, irresponsibility, and general assholiness as, "that's just hunting." It isn't. That is slob hunting. It is a major reason I mostly hunt alone.

After I posted this, this article turned up online:

Why I Don't Take Long Shots When Deer Hunting

In nearly 40 years of deer hunting, I can only remember two deer I shot at that I didn't bring home. This is not a boastful statement. I just tend to shoot deer fairly close—inside 150 yards, almost always—and in the open. I don't take chances.

www.fieldandstream.com

 

[gouch]

I have never been on either end but I know of a couple of instances where this came into play. My best friend was muzzle loader elk hunting alone when he shot a cow elk. He was positive it was a good shot. The cow ran and within just a few seconds two shots rang out. He went over there and found four guys with the elk He told them he shot it first but they insisted it was their elk. They were all packing side arms so he didn't press the issue. The other was my cousins wife who shot a deer that ran off. she heard a shot and went to see. she found a guy with the deer so she chambered a round and pointed at his head while saying "GET THE HELL AWAY FROM MY &*^&*$@# DEER!" He got away from the deer. Probably not the recommended way to handle it but it worked and he didn't have her thrown in Jail.

 

[3855WIN]

If it appears another hunter made a kill shot and I finished it off, I’d give it to the first shooter.

 

[ClearCreek]

When I was 16-17, I had a guy kill an elk seconds after I'd double lunged him. The bull was spraying blood out both sides as he ran off. He made it about 30-40 yards around a small ridge visible to another hunter, who shot and "killed" him. I was a little pissed about it, but ended up killing a bull the next day. In that situation, IMO, it was pretty f'd up for a grown ass man to steal an elk from a kid. The guy was an "upstanding" member of the USFWS. He didn't know me, but I knew him, small towns are a funny thing... That guy was a real winner. Some people just get stupid after killing an animal. I'd just as soon let someone else have it and get to keep hunting. Totally ruins an experience for everyone.

This reminds me of a situation the local game warden told me about a couple years ago. A father and son were elk hunting just west of our town on National Forest land and had worked their way to a small meadow where a rag horn bull was feeding. The son shot the elk and while the elk was in that stiff legged, dead on his feet stance, a shot rang out from the far side of the meadow. The elk dropped and and two hunters came out of the trees leading their horses.

The father and son were the first ones to the bull, but when the horse hunters made it to the elk they claimed it saying, "Everybody knows the person whose shot drops the animal is the person that has claim to the animal". The father told them his son shot the animal, it was his first elk, and he had made a killing shot. The animal had just not dropped yet.

The two horse hunters got belligerent, so the father told his son they would leave and let the other two hunters have the elk. According to the father his son was very disappointed and was not sure he wanted to hunt elk again.

One of the horse hunters is or was (he may have moved) a well known contractor in our town and is in his early 60's. He has killed numerous elk.

This is the type of behavior that I don't understand. It was the kids first elk hunt, and in my opinion had an elk stolen from him.

ClearCreek