RMEF Elk Camp anyone?

[bow hunter]

yeah, i agree. i thought it was a great show, and they always do a good job of having something for everyone. my lil guy loved the kids camp, and of course with my wife in tow, we enjoyed all of the exhibits. it was great meeting everyone. see yall in vegas next year!

 

[shoots-straight]

They are also big supporters of guaranteed outfitter tags. I guess they have everyone covered.

+1. They get a lot of money from outfitters, and therefore promote them, or promote them to get the money. Either way it's all about getting greased.:hump:

 

[Lawnboy]

NICE!!!! Bart and randy 10 foot tall on the big screen!

OYOA makes its presence known at the daryl singeltary concert.

Yikes that could be bad for business Randy might want to think longer on who he takes pictures with. Although it probably makes him look like he's doing one of those Big Brother Big Sister gigs for charity.

 

[onpoint]

+1. They get a lot of money from outfitters, and therefore promote them, or promote them to get the money. Either way it's all about getting greased.:hump:

+2.... reluctantly let my longtime membership to RMEF lapse-hope to see a reason to
re-up again someday. PLWA gets that piece of my paycheck now.

 

[dmserpa]

Rmef

Another great show and some good seminars for us hunters! I Can't believe that there are people out there that don't support RMEF in there endeavors! Who else is doing as much to improve habitat for Elk and all other species? The outfitters are there doing business as usual, why should we put them down for making a living doing what most of us would envy. I would like to see OYOA have a presence there next year to promote our cause, how about it Big Fin? I walked around for two days looking for the Big Fin but no luck, we need you in a booth so we can find you!!!

 

[Big Fin]

+1. They get a lot of money from outfitters, and therefore promote them, or promote them to get the money. Either way it's all about getting greased.:hump:

They are also big supporters of guaranteed outfitter tags. I guess they have everyone covered.

By opposing a ballot initiative that increased self-guided non-resident fees by 35%+ ?

Such opposition to that initiative could cause Fin to be grouped as a supporter of "guaranteed outfitter tags."

Will be interesting to see if there are enough apps for all the elk-deer combo tags this year. Guess we will know on the 15th. As of right now, the app numbers make it look like the outfitter clients are guaranteed a tag under the new system, the same as they had under the old system.

The initiative laid the pipe to the self-guided non-resident. I suspect time will tell if it opened the gates for more outfitting and hunt clubs.

 

[Big Fin]

I would like to see OYOA have a presence there next year to promote our cause, how about it Big Fin? I walked around for two days looking for the Big Fin but no luck, we need you in a booth so we can find you!!!

Thinking about a booth for both the Mule Deer expo in SLC and Elk Camp in Vegas. No doubt the western events have a big attendance of our viewers. Depends what the cost will be for having a booth.

Wish we would have touched base.

 

[onpoint]

Another great show and some good seminars for us hunters! I Can't believe that there are people out there that don't support RMEF in there endeavors! Who else is doing as much to improve habitat for Elk and all other species? The outfitters are there doing business as usual, why should we put them down for making a living doing what most of us would envy. I would like to see OYOA have a presence there next year to promote our cause, how about it Big Fin? I walked around for two days looking for the Big Fin but no luck, we need you in a booth so we can find you!!!

I by no means want to get another "which sportsmans group....." deal started. But RMEF has taken a different direction (IMO) in the last few years. I was a member for something like 15 years...me and them just differ nowadays. And as for oufitters making a living doing a job I would envy....now thats funny.....

 

[mtmiller]

Randy,

We have differrent opinions. I am against guaranteed tags for those with coin in their pocket. With the passage of 161 they may continue to draw every year (time will tell), but they are not a leg up on the DIY hunter that would rather not use an outfitter. Did 161 overprice what the market will bear for the common man? Maybe, once again, we shall see.

Also my opinion, I don't think RMEF really cared that much about the hike in NR prices. Do you think if the price of a NR wasn't adjusted they would have been for the Inititive or stayed out completely?

I think I have mentioned this before, I am not against outfitting at all. If you are a good outfitter you will still get your clients. I don't care for the welfare aspect of it. You shouldn't be guaranteed a deer/elk tag every year just because you have the extra money for tags and outfitters.

We won't be changing each other's mind.

 

[Big Fin]

I am against guaranteed tags for those with coin in their pocket.

Me too.

With the passage of 161 they may continue to draw every year (time will tell), but they are not a leg up on the DIY hunter that would rather not use an outfitter. Did 161 overprice what the market will bear for the common man? Maybe, once again, we shall see.

Maybe not a leg up via the statute that provided the old OSLs, but it seems like we have given them a leg up on the DIY guy, by increasing the price on the DIY guy and lowering the price on the outfitted guy. But, maybe not.

Also my opinion, I don't think RMEF really cared that much about the hike in NR prices. Do you think if the price of a NR wasn't adjusted they would have been for the Inititive or stayed out completely?

I am pretty sure if it was not an initiative, but rather a bill in the legislature, they would have stayed out of it completely. If it had not increased the price of the DIY NR, I think they would have stayed out of it.

I say that, having been in on a phone conference about the topic as they were seeking input from many people about what decision they would make. From that phone conference, I gathered they were not excited about initiatives, they were not happy to see the fee increase on DIY NRs, and they did not see that it would help with the access problem that it was stated to solve.

I really don't know how they came to their final decision, but could see where they are coming from. Since it was not written the way you mention above, we probably will never know.

They do get money from the hunts donated by outfitters. I don't think anyone will deny that. And, over 90% of their members are DIY guys, the majority of whom live outside of MT. So, I suspect when they made the final decision, they looked at all of it in the eyes of all their members - their largest section of members, DIY guys, took a hit, and a group that does help them raise money took a hit. Seems like a logical explanation for them not supporting the initiative as written.

I don't care for the welfare aspect of it. You shouldn't be guaranteed a deer/elk tag every year just because you have the extra money for tags and outfitters.

Agreed, completely. Both on the welfare aspect and on the "preferred access due to financial resources" aspect.

We won't be changing each other's mind.

Probably not, 'cause I don' think our minds are very far apart on the idea.

Only thing we probably disagree on is whether one's opposition against I-161 represents being a "big supporter of guaranteed outfitter tags," as you stated. Or, is such vote a vote to say that you think (only time will tell if any of us "thinked" correctly) that the initiative causes more problems than it will solve, if in fact it will solve any.

I certainly see why MT folks are upset for RMEF coming out against it. But, the majority of their membership being DIY guys and NOT being from MT, are pissed that it passed.

I heard plenty of complaints from DIY NR guys at these shows this winter, asking why we felt so compelled to raise their prices, and lower the guided hunter prices. I don't have a good explanation for them. Since I am known as a promoter of DIY hunting and these guys know I am from MT, the NR guys who see me don't let many opportunities pass without asking for an explanation from me.

 

[WT_in_MT]

What I-161 will or won't do, on either side of the fence, will never be known. HB 387 will change the dynamic again starting 7/1/11. Amazing how a $300 license increase last fall was going to result in a drastic drop in applicants but another $300 increase on top of that for 40% of the licenses via HB 387 is going to be the answer.

 

[Big Fin]

What I-161 will or won't do, on either side of the fence, will never be known. HB 387 will change the dynamic again starting 7/1/11. Amazing how a $300 license increase last fall was going to result in a drastic drop in applicants but another $300 increase on top of that for 40% of the licenses via HB 387 is going to be the answer.

That will change things, if the Gov signs it, for sure. But, I don' t think it will be signed before the March 15 NR deadline, so we will get to see what affect the fee increase had for 2011.

By the time the Gov signs HB 387, it will not start until 2012.

Seems if we undersell at the current price, there would be very little interest in the licenses that will have a higher price. Looks like we are going the WY route for the NR licenses. Not sure that it is necessary, but looks like it passed the legislature with almost no resistance.

 

[Big O]

I can testify to the effects of I-161, personally speaking. I am a NR, DIY hunter all the way. I hunt MT as much as possible. Don't have a thing against guides whatsoever, just not my cup of tea. Love the challenge and rewards of DIY, can't be beat.

I typically hunt with my 2 brother-inlaws, not this year. Just sent in $932 by myself, that really sucks! For obvious circumstances I'm going solo. I know of 3 other friends that will not be spending there money in MT this year. Those 3 do the hotel, restraunt and gas deal for a week in Eastern MT. Theres 5 guys that just I know of. I'm sure the guided hunters still put in for the draw with little worry of not getting drawn. Still seems like a guaranteed tag to me. MT has priced out some of the regular guys.

 

[DreaminofMT6X6s]

What bugs me is that NR now have the impression MT doesn't want anyone outside of residents hunting our state anymore. I'm not making this up. My friends who are both NR and residents all say the same thing. MT what's to keep people out. MT has lost a lot of fans I think. Obviously, I don't think this was the intent, but I echo Big O's comments. They are cutting out a lot of guys who would otherwise provide a lot of income for small communities like Lewistown, Monarch, Niehart, Bozeman, Lincoln...the list goes on and on.

 

[WT_in_MT]

I meant long-term Big Fin. And yes, the effective date of the bill will be 7/1/11 so it will be the '12 licenses that are first affected.