Pronghorn populations rebound on refuge

[Ten Bears]

Thanks 1-P, in most cases you are the voice of reason, even if I don't always agree.

However, some here would like to see large tract of land set aside for their specila uses, and exclude those with less time, money, or ability. IT/BUZZ, I'm talking about you.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-27-2003 11:26: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[1_pointer]

TB- Thanks for the compliment, even if I'm unsure if it fits. I'm too young to be reasonable!

Plus, there are a few here that feel I am not that reasonable.

 

[BigHornyRam]

Pointer,

I think you are very open minded and reasonable. And of all the "liberals" that post in S I you are the only honest one! I do learn a lot from your posts, even some of the ones I disagree with. Keep it up.

Paul

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> However, some here would like to see large tract of land set aside for their specila uses, and exclude those with less time, money, or ability. IT/BUZZ, I'm talking about you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The beauty of Wilderness and most Public Land is that it can be set aside for EVERYBODY's special use. If you choose to build roads in it, you just limited its value. If you run Welfare Rancher's cattle, you just limited its value to all.

And nobody has "more time" than anybody else. We all have the same 24 hours. It is just some choose to use them differently than others. Not having time, is not an excuse for riding an ATV...

Paul,
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I think you are very open minded and reasonable. And of all the "liberals" that post in S I you are the only honest one! I do learn a lot from your posts, even some of the ones I disagree with. Keep it up.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you on Pointer, as he is reasonable, but I think you do him a disservice with judging his honesty, due to your appearant lack. Remember the other thread where you said I had the "inaccurate information" on the Wild sheep breeding with the domestic sheep? C'mon Paul, maybe you should leave the character judgements alone, as you probably wouldn't be the best person to recognize honesty.

 

[Ten Bears]

ELK GUNNER, when did I say anything about building roads in or into wilderness? Don't give me that lame everyone hasthe same 24 hours, it's just what they decide to do with it philosophical junk either. There are those that work longer days or double jobs inorder to pay for their recreation, and not everyone like to recreate nonmotorized. When was the last time you heard an ATV riders say, "man, I'd've had a great weekend, if it hadn't been for those hikers walkin' all over the place."? The only people bitchin' around here are those that want to keep takin' opportunity away from everyone else. BTW, I have never run into cows in the wilderness.

It may actually be a unique and valuable experience, having all that wolf food wondering around.

Working graveyard gives me the opportunity to either come here, and then go ride my ATV, go ride my ATV until I'm tired, or just sleep all day. Usually I come here to listen to the enviro dribble during the work week, and then join the ATV crowd on the weekend.

Does anybody know of the ATV rides being held during the deer/elk season in southern idaho. I heard a rumor about some guys going down for a big ride in the "closed units"(the units closed to ATV riding hunters, but open to regular weekend warrior riders).

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-27-2003 17:01: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,

You are right, you didn't say to build roads, I just leapt to the conclusion that your comment about setting aside for special uses was a referance to the Roadless issues.

And it was you who brought up the lack of time to enjoy these areas. If you want to enjoy these areas, you can MAKE time. Just like you do to ride around on your ATV.

I think it would be great for a bunch of ATV guys to go for a "Ride" in one of the closed ATV units. I am sure that would just underscore the problem, and be the incentive for even stronger regulation NEXT year. That doesn't sound like a brilliant idea on the Fat-Assed ATV Rider's part, but who knows.

 

[Ten Bears]

Please tell me how it would be bad for non-hunting ATV riders to host a ride in an area that is open for them to ride in. These areas are only closed to hunters that would ride ATV's.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Well......
As a hunter, I would be dissappointed by a bunch of Fat-Assed ATV riders disrupting my hunt. (I wonder what the litmus test is for Harrassment of Hunters, or interfering with hunting, as it applies to the "Ride" interfering with my hunt).

But the real reason would be political. If the Fat-Assed ATV riders cause problems, then next year there will be incentive to make it state wide, and you will have even more peole motivated to ban ATV's and hunting. Seems like political suicide for the ATV crowd, but they are probably smart enough to know what they are doing...

 

[Ten Bears]

I think you would have to prove the "harassment". Remember, these trails are open to non-hunter ATV riders. How would that push for a statewide ban? It is very isolationist and narrow minded of you to exclude those that would recreate different then you. Remember, ATV riding is a growing sport in this state, and many riders these days are not even hunters. If you should choose to attack their sport, I'm sure you can expect the same in return.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The Commission authority to set this rule falls under "method of take" requirements and the rule does not apply to users who are not engaged in hunting.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www2.state.id.us/fishgame/incredid/Fall2003/atv.htm

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-27-2003 18:39: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears said, "It is very isolationist and narrow minded of you to exclude those that would recreate different then you."

But, its not narrow minded when an ATVer ruins someones hunt?

You bet, I fight just as hard for my right to recreate without interference from ATV's as the BRC and others fight for their right to ride all over the countryside. I dont hold it against them for wanting to look out for their own best interest, nor should you be suprised or offended that I do the same.

Also, land in wilderness or off limits to ATV's EXCLUDES nobody...theres provisions for the truly handicapped and a vast majority of people are born with legs...

You are making a choice not to use wilderness and/or areas that dont allow ATV's.

With 380,000 miles of roads on National Forest Lands alone, I find it hard to believe that you have the nerve to bitch about not having anywhere to ride...

May I suggest a map?

I applaud Idaho for having the vision to admit and recognize that there is a major problem with ATV use during hunting season, and also for having the fortitude to deal with it.

 

[Ten Bears]

Idaho has not dealt with it, and that is my point.

I will ride were I am permitted, and when I feel like it. Just as you proclaim that hunting remote areas is your pleasure, if ATV's bother you, get off the road.
BTW, areas open to ATV travel are less restrictive to access, and therefore allow a greater diversity of recreational opportunity.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-29-2003 16:29: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[1_pointer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>BTW, areas open to ATV travel are less restrictive to access, and therefore allow a greater diversity of recreational opportunity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Allows for a greater diversity of motorized recreation. My recreation interests can be pursued without ATV travel being legal. I think ATV's should be limited to the same roads/trails as passenger vehichles. That I would have no problem with. I think all crosscountry travel should be illegal. I know of area here in UT that have been written off as sacrifice areas. Where next???

 

[Ten Bears]

Why shouldn't there be road systems designated open to ATV's and dirt bikes without passenger vehicles allowed?

BTW, opening day of archery I found cows & calf elk, a big black bear, and a 160+ whitetail buck (shot nothing), and they all were within 1/4 mile of the road. Too hot to kill animals.

 

[Ithaca 37]

With 4 miles of logging roads for every square mile of land in some parts of the Idaho Panhandle it's pretty hard for an animal to get more than 1/4 mile away from a road!

 

[1_pointer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Why shouldn't there be road systems designated open to ATV's and dirt bikes without passenger vehicles allowed?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just my ideals, that's all. I think this would make the designation of where they are allowed so straight forward that there would be no confusion as to where they can legally be. Even with tons of signage, the message isn't getting through in certain places. Many WSA's in UT now have trails through them because some jackass wanted one. That could be due to all other BLM lands being open to cross-country travel.

 

[Ten Bears]

1-P, so maybe better information to the people?

Ithaca, you may be right with that subjective figure. I know of one spot that has almost 15 miles of road in a square mile. It's all in how you stack'em.

If roads are so bad for elk, and we have such high road densities that they are bad for elk, why do we still have a general hunt cow elk season up here, and you don't?

 

[1_pointer]

I wouldn't frown on more info, but would smile on greater enforcement. In one instance here in UT 31 tickets were issued in a relatively small area over Memorial Day weekend, but only two were upheld by the judge. The rest were thrown out. Can't seem to win for losing some time...

In the long run I think it will have to be the ATVer's and their associated organizations that make the biggest difference. In Utah in the '60's it was not uncommon for there to be double digit accidental shootings during deer season, much do to sound shots. Implementation of hunter's ed and awareness by hunter's has curbed that drastically. Last year there were no such incidents.

 

[Ten Bears]

Good points 1-P.