T
tjones
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Not you too Ken? SMH.
Political Correctness...it's very own thread of candor
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noharleyyet
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Shaking your head, srsly??.....thanks for your contribution.
James Riley
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I don't think the U.S. needs to get boxed in to any country's particular policy. I think we should think outside the box. I think we should enhance our human intelligence (not tech) at home (F.B.I. only) and abroad (C.I.A./N.S.A. etc.), kill foreigners who need killing, offer Due Process of Law to American citizens where ever they are, trust in what we say we believe in, distinguish between existential threats and tragedy, and screen immigrants for threats and then provide them with free education in the Liberal Arts.
I have some more detailed, nuanced and complex ideas but, as I said before, it would take forever to argue them here. Suffice it to say, we should revisit the value of certain historically accepted demands of sovereignty, handed down from the Dark Ages, that are generally seen as individual personality characters, beneath the more considered, objective, distant nature expected of a Nation or State. In other words, our sovereignty might better be protected if States quit acting like men in their inter-State relations. Turning that ocean liner would not take all that long. Much more would follow but it's beyond the scope of this venue.
Can you explain why you think we would not end up like France? What policy do we do here that France hasn't that will keep us out of the same situation? Would we be vetting in only certain people compared to France? You shaking your head, so you must have a few facts or predictions of why we can avoid France like problems.
James Riley
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I'm not shaking my head so I assume you are talking to someone else. :W: I'd start with the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans and go from there. It's not policy but it is a difference. All our problems have been home grown as of late.
Nemont
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Hmmmm.....So if an American Citizen takes up arms and declares Jihad against America he still gets his Due Process? That is not how the current president acted in the case of Al-Awaki or his son.
Seems like there has to be a point where your Citizenship is considered null and void if you are running around Yemen and helping plan attacks on Americans and America.
Nemont
James, So you think a body of water will be a factor? I'm not following that. I work and live in mechanical and engineering environments my whole life. I'm wired for looking for and at data, present and historical. Formulas, laws of physics and what not. So my question to you and Tony is what makes us humans in the USA immune to things that happen in France? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm looking for the data or just what your thoughts are why things would be so different here.
Rainer
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America needs to worry about it's domestic terrorism problem more than on the international side. America has had more Right wing Christian terrorist attacks then Muslim. Yet I don't see them bombing the southern states. Why is the Klan still a group in America? All white supremacist groups are no different
MinnesotaHunter
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Another dynamic taking place in western Europe that goes beyond immigration, is they are being out-reproduced by the Muslim portion of the population. The majority of western European countries are projected as having very low population growth as a whole through 2050, but there is a projected growth in the % of the population that is Muslim. This likely leads to a larger percentage of the population that will potentially feel disenfranchised.
MinnesotaHunter
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But their inspiration hasn't necessarily been...
Nemont
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We have also had more attacks from radical Eco freak left wing secular nut jobs, what does that prove about our current situation regarding Jihadist? Once somebody wants to absolve one side of the political spectrum by stating "Rightwing Christian Terrorist" you can be assured they are part of the problem and not part of solution.
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005
Seems pretty much equal opportunity for wing nuts from both ends of the political spectrum.
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noharleyyet
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Not to get too strung out on the France mention, quick search.....first hit
http://www.thelocal.fr/20150924/france-facing-same-old-problems-in-future
http://www.thelocal.fr/20150924/france-facing-same-old-problems-in-future
James Riley
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If Due Process goes out the window whenever the State says so, then we've lost the security of a free state.
James Riley
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History shows the oceans have always been our friend. The Monroe Doctrine leaned on them. Entry into WWI and II was at our leisure because of them. That and our natural resources. The logistics make attack difficult and proper screening would make it even harder. I never said we are immune. We just are not France or anything like it. Again, it seems home-grown is a greater threat, from McVeigh to the freak in Orlando.
James Riley
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True, but that is more a reflection on our society than it is on their inspiration. We have been letting ourselves down. Especially in the class room. There will always be the stupid and the disaffected and with 300+ million people we will get more Columbines, New Towns/Sandy Hook, Orlando, San Bernadino, Oklahoma City, etc. Personally, I think these guys were not getting laid enough or were bullied or felt forced into the closet or whatever. They just looked for a support network and found it with an Imam. People used to find it in the Mafia, or the Hells Angels or whatever. It's a home because they don't have one.
James Riley
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Really? Show me some mass murders by radical Eco freak left wing secular nut jobs.
MinnesotaHunter
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No just offering some additional information, showing that this is not just an issue of government policy in France or any other European country. The number of Muslims in the country isn't even the direct issue, but it can contribute to setting the conditions where Muslims are more susceptible to radicalization; "taxation, without representation!!!". Over the last 15 years, few of the terror attacks committed by Muslims in Europe, were done by individuals who infiltrated into the country to attack. Most were either there on a Visa of some type or were citizens of the country who for some reason became radicalized. Once radicalized many then sought connection with a group, and received training or instruction.
That being said, refugees are a very susceptible group for radicalization, and without carefully vetting has proven to be an easy vector for groups like ISIS to infiltrate cells. The interesting dynamic with Syria, is that they classify most of the people as refugees, which in most cases is considered a temporary condition and they rarely move any further than they need to escape danger. In this case it looks more like migration, with no plans to return to Syria.
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Nemont
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Read the link. Do you think ELF identifies with the rightwing or leftwing
James Riley
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I did, and you are dead wrong. Not a single murder. And, to counter your entire argument in the post to which I responded, I found this in your citation: "In contrast to the ALF and the ELF, which have pursued a philosophy that avoids physical violence in favor of acts of property damage that cause their victims economic harm, right-wing extremists pursued a qualitatively different method of operation by targeting people."
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