Owyhee Initiative for Dummies

[ELKCHSR]

HAHAHA!!!Nemont, that is funny!!!!

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, I understand how you feel about the term "welfare rancher". It's a terrible thing to be called, and I haven't been calling you that. However, I do call anyone that who is grazing public land. If there's anything you could say to convince me that $1.35 per AUM isn't a subsidy I'd read it with an open mind. And if there's any way you can show me that at least 60% of all BLM isn't in poor condition due to overgrazing I'd gladly consider it. Same thing for 85% of all BLM riparian zones. I do know some welfare ranchers try to treat their grazing leases well. I also know some of them are so used to seeing overgrazed land that they don't even know what land in good condition looks like. Mostly, though, welfare ranchers regard any grass left for wildlife to use as a waste. They'd rather convert that grass to money by letting their cattle eat it.

I take a position far from the middle on this issue to, as Gunner says, help define the extreme boundary on my side. The extreme boundary on my side is a lot closer to being reasonable than the position of the Owyhee Cattlemen's Association, which has a history of being anti-wildlife.

[ 04-18-2004, 09:39: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]

 

[JoseCuervo]

Here is a Commentary from the biggest paper in Idaho, from the Political Editor. He is usally right-on with his views of the "politics" of Idaho. Although he is way-off base to suggest that Craig could ever achieve the lasting legacy of Senators Borah and Church. The best Craig could aspire to is to have a Superfund site named after him.

Craig could make his mark with Owyhee plan

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One man can make history by endorsing a compromise to protect Owyhee Canyonlands and our ranching heritage: Sen. Larry Craig.
For all the heroic work of Owyhee County commissioners, ranchers, conservationists and Craig´s junior colleague, Sen. Mike Crapo, Congress won´t settle this decades-old conflict without Craig.

“We absolutely have to have Sen. Craig´s support,” said Craig Gehrke of The Wilderness Society, who helped lead Crapo´s Owyhee Initiative. “If there´s any waffling, if there´s any silence, we´re not going to make it.”

Craig chairs the subcommittee that would hear a bill designating 510,000 acres as wilderness, about 10 percent of the federal ground in Owyhee County. The draft plan would extend Wild and Scenic status to 390 miles of streams, release 205,000 acres of wilderness study areas to multiple use, and create a new framework to help keep ranchers in business. Craig also is on the committee that would provide funding for management, grazing buyouts and enforcement.

While Crapo has doggedly pushed for consensus, Craig kept his distance from the process begun by commissioners in 2001. The group voted unanimously last week to circulate a draft plan and meet on final approval next month. Craig applauded Crapo´s work but withheld judgment.

“I´m very supportive of what Mike has done, but the process, and what it yields in the final product, is what I have to work with,” Craig said. “I will want my committee to be a facilitator of the right product.”

Crapo is optimistic a plan will be formally adopted in May. He said he expects Craig and Reps. Butch Otter and Mike Simpson to be “very supportive.”

Simpson is working on a Boulder-White Clouds wilderness bill and will stick with Crapo because they need each other. Otter will find backing by the Owyhee Cattlemen´s Association persuasive. Otter also wants to be governor and needs to soften his wetlands-ravaging image.

Craig is the tough nut. His power extends beyond his ample procedural clout — he´s a symbol of an Old West that abhors federally designated wildlands. Some speculate he´s quietly hoping the consensus breaks, so he can walk away from another wilderness wreck. But I looked Craig in the eye on this, and my gut tells me that´s unfair.

Craig is smart, adaptable and sensitive to change, including the high-tech boom that has brought people attracted by world-class wild places like the Owyhees.

His skepticism is born of experience. In 23 years in Congress, he´s seen wilderness plans hit the scrap heap. Until Crapo and the Owyhee commissioners deliver the final details, Craig wisely keeps his counsel.

Crapo has done the spadework in the House. He´s lobbied his good friend and 1992 classmate, Resources Committee Chairman Richard Pombo. Though ordinarily a wilderness opponent, Pombo thinks the half-million-acre compromise is a far sight better than the 2.7-million acre monument plan from the Clinton era.

Which returns us to Craig. Winning his support will take personal appeals from Owyhee cattlemen and old friends like Chad Gibson, who grew up on a Washington County ranch, not far from Craig´s family place.

Gibson has a doctorate in range management and was the ag extension agent in Owyhee County for 17 years. Along with conservationist Gehrke, he co-chaired the Owyhee Initiative while Chairman Fred Grant recovered from heart surgery.

Gibson and Craig were in 4-H together, showing cattle at the county fair. When he pitches Craig, he´ll tell him the deal protects ranching.

“It´s not going to be unlike selling it to the cattlemen,” Gibson said. “If I was trying to convince them we needed more wilderness and that was it, I wouldn´t get very far. But if there´s enough in the package as a trade-off for wilderness, it will go ahead. I think Larry will look at it in that light.”

Chris Black, a fifth-generation rancher near Bruneau, would lose 20,000 acres to wilderness. But he wants the deal. Black was ardently courted by conservationists, who were fed roast beef by his wife, Dixie, and cookies from the Easy-Bake Oven by their 8-year-old, Bridget.

“It´s an attempt to try and secure a future,” he said. “If we don´t have closure, it may be that some day we don´t have as much say and possibly lose our livelihood.”

Larry Craig can deliver for those traditional interests. At the same time, he can transcend old ways and create a legacy entering him in the Idaho Pantheon with Sens. William Borah, Frank Church and Jim McClure. It´s up to him if he wants their company.

 

[Ten Bears]

And then you have some people who support it, but have no reason to support it (Ten Beers, MD4,)

I support grazing on public lands as a manner of land management, and as a matter of opposition to the anti-grazing movement. Multiple use management, not exclusive use.

 

[1_pointer]

A plan is just a plan. Beings that no land management agencies are involved (which I find interesting and disconcerting), there is no certainty that what comes out of the planning process would be incorporated into a RMP. In order to do so, the plan would be open to public scrutiny.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Ten Bears:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And then you have some people who support it, but have no reason to support it (Ten Beers, MD4,)

I support grazing on public lands as a manner of land management, and as a matter of opposition to the anti-grazing movement. Multiple use management, not exclusive use. </font>[/QUOTE]Ten Beers,
So you would not support Wilderness, under your current stated position? Correct?

 

[Hangar18]

I hope to be there. I will look for Wylee & Moosie.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Fairly interesting meeting, and it was great seeing so many old friends! Didn't learn much, but I do feel a little better about the OI. Not good enough to vote for it though. I won't be around to discuss much for a few days. Have fun!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Hangar18:
I hope to be there. I will look for Wylee & Moosie.

It was easy to find Wylee and Moosie, as they were about the only two wearing hats inside of the Church.

 

[JoseCuervo]

There was at least 5 HuntTalkers there...

Sportsmen and environmental groups debated a plan Tuesday to protect the Owyhee Canyonlands and ranching in Idaho's southwest corner.

The proposal, which would set aside 510,000 acres as federally protected wilderness and 390 miles of Wild and Scenic rivers, got mixed reviews.

The meeting at the First Presbyterian Church in Boise, sponsored by the Sierra Club, brought out more than 150 people, mostly wilderness advocates, sportsmen, environmentalists, hikers and boaters. A few Owyhee County ranchers also showed up to show their support for the proposal, put together collaboratively between ranchers environmentalists and local officials.

Critics said the plan gives ranchers too much power and allows them to continue to degrade water quality and wildlife habitat. Many of the questions focused on an independent panel of scientists, who would review decisions made by the Bureau of Land Management on rancher's grazing plans.

"We think this is a very, very bad solution," said Kathy Barker McCoy, president of the Golden Eagle Audubon Society chapter in Boise. "It's very disconcerting to see groups I support backing something that is not a compromise. The cowboys are not giving up anything as far as I can see."

Supporters challenged that view and touted the huge areas protected under the proposal. "We should not let perfect be the enemy of the good," said Rick Johnson, Idaho Conservation League executive director.

Critics also expressed skepticism about a board of directors, which would keep the original members of the initiative, environmentalists, ranchers, state and federal officials, to oversee the implementation of the legislation.

Dan Walters asked whether the integrity of the area would be dependent on a board, which would control its own membership. Supporters said neither the board nor the review panel would have authority over BLM and that national environmental laws would protect the area.

Mike Hanley, an Owyhee rancher, challenged the view that ranchers gave up nothing. In the past decade, ranchers have given up 68 percent of their livestock use allowed in the Owyhees. He praised the process that brought him in front of a largely environmental audience where he received more than polite applause when he was finished.

"This is America where we work things out," he said. "Hopefully none of us will go away."

 

[Nemont]

"This is America where we work things out," he said. "Hopefully none of us will go away."

EG,
That statement must have been tough for you to swallow.

What was the general mood? Keep working on the OI and iron out the wrinkles or throw out the process and start over? Do you think the points of contention can be fixed?

Nemont

 

[Hangar18]

Nemont - The points of contention last night came from the hard-line environmentalist crowd. They are upset that the plan does not do more to monitor grazing practices, allegedly. The lady from CHD pointed this out, and Craig Gehrke rebutted her. The final solution was for people to read the plan and make up their own minds, as it appears it is a matter of personal interpretation.

I think everyone's concern, no matter where you stand philosophically, is the process in which this plan was hatched. No one likes 10, or rather 8, making these kinds of decisions that effect over 500,000 people. But, there is a public comment period open now so us outsiders can voice our concerns. We will see what impact they have.


edit: EG - Good to finally meet you last night. We need to get together in a couple of weeks, as I think I will have some better info for you.

 

[Ten Bears]

Ten Beers,
So you would not support Wilderness, under your current stated position? Correct?

I don't support "designating" wilderness were wilderness doesn't exist, or as a tool for unnecessarily excluding recreation or use. Is that what you wanted to hear?

 

[1_pointer]

Personally, I don't see the hang up over a plan being put together by a few. NEPA requires that anything on federal land be open to public comment and protest must be addressed. What am I missing?

 

[Nemont]

I find the TNC position on the OI interesting. Especially that part about preserving the economy and social fabric of the area.

Cooperative effort can save the 'Old West' of Owyhees
Boise, ID—June 6, 2002—Anyone who has ever visited Owyhee County knows it is a special place: It is one of the few landscapes left that lives up to what most Americans think of as the "Old West." Sage grouse, California bighorns, and a wide range of other species, large and small, range through the rugged sagebrush landscape. Rhyolite canyons and desert rivers provide stunning vistas; vast stands of sagebrush cover much of the 5-million-acre landscape.

While those who work there, recreate there, or just care about the area may disagree on some points, all agree that this is a special, unique place. In the past, however, most dialogue has focused on the disagreements rather than this basic agreement. Since September, a group of conservationists, ranchers, recreationists and outfitters called the Owyhee Initiative have gotten together to create a way to protect the county´s human and natural communities, with a goal of presenting a package of recommendations, including a legislative proposal that would be brought to Congress by our Idaho congressional delegation.

The Nature Conservancy, with a mission of conserving biodiversity, has long recognized the importance of the Owyhees. It is perhaps the largest and highest quality sagebrush steppe habitat left anywhere in the West, and the diversity of animals and plants cannot be protected without protecting this habitat.

We also believe that, in doing so, we can protect the human traditions and economies of the Owyhees.

The conservancy has recently presented its proposals to the Owyhee Initiative work group. Using the latest science, we have identified those areas that have the best habitat and the greatest diversity of species. In selecting these areas, we wanted to represent the many habitats that make up Owyhee County. We offered plans to address critical issues affecting conservation in the county, including weeds, fire, ecological studies, juniper management/habitat restoration and grassbanks.

Admittedly, these are big issues to address, which is why we also have proposed a collaborative landscape council. Currently, much research, restoration and planning is happening in the Owyhees, yet there is little coordination or prioritization. There is not a single forum where citizens, scientists and agencies can come together to cooperate on the spectrum of social, economic and environmental issues that affect the integrity of the landscape. Creating such a group would provide an ongoing forum for the full spectrum of affected parties.

Similar councils representing diverse interests have been successful elsewhere in the West. What these groups have in common is a clear purpose, a community-based approach, knowledge of issues and a commitment to participate.

Utilizing this science-driven approach and focusing on the critical threats to conservation, we can preserve high-quality natural habitats and restore key portions of the Owyhee landscape to an ecologically functioning condition. And, just as importantly, it also will help protect the economic and social fabric of Owyhee County.

A Little History

[ 04-21-2004, 11:05: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[Ten Bears]

What these groups have in common is a clear purpose, a community-based approach, knowledge of issues and a commitment to participate.

Participate NOT dictate.

 

[1_pointer]

Nemont- TNC is for biodiversity, so I'm wondering if they think this would be better served by ranches rather than sub-divisions???

See folks, TNC is a pretty good group.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, "What was the general mood? Keep working on the OI and iron out the wrinkles or throw out the process and start over? Do you think the points of contention can be fixed?"

I'd say it was optimism that such disparate groups are at least talking and working together, coupled with resignation that no compromise is ever going to make everyone happy.

I musta missed the other Hunt Talkers at the meeting. All I noticed was Gunner.

 

[Moosie]

Ithica, When I showed up I seen ya quickly then We say in the Fron middle. Gunner stayed through the whole thing and we went out and Drank a beer afterwards.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Moosie, Sorry I missed ya. I got bored and have heard it all before.