Oops, didn't declare firearm

[RobG]

Long story short, someone (disclaimer: it wasn't me) didn't make it abundantly clear there was a rifle in the rifle case that she checked as luggage. The Penn State dropout working the luggage counter thought it was a band instrument.

So, 4 months later we got a letter saying we owe TSA $500, or $250 if we pay within 30 days. There are are some options such requesting a informal or formal hearing or asking for a reduced penalty (must give reason).

Anyone been down this road before? If we request an informal hearing or reduced penalty is it going to take more than 30 days and we'll be out $500?

 

[James Riley]

Long story short, someone (disclaimer: it wasn't me) didn't make it abundantly clear there was a rifle in the rifle case that she checked as luggage. The Penn State dropout working the luggage counter thought it was a band instrument.

So, 4 months later we got a letter saying we owe TSA $500, or $250 if we pay within 30 days. There are are some options such requesting a informal or formal hearing or asking for a reduced penalty (must give reason).

Anyone been down this road before? If we request an informal hearing or reduced penalty is it going to take more than 30 days and we'll be out $500?

I don't understand. What evidence does TSA have that it occurred?

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

I stuck a rubber sex toy in my buddy's carry on with an oversized water bottle. Never laughed so hard in my life...

TSA sucks for the most part and i'm not really sure what authority they have to fine anyone.

 

[RobG]

I don't understand. What evidence does TSA have that it occurred?

The checked luggage goes through an X-ray machine and they noticed it there (Golly, that's not a clarinet in that gun case!). They called my wife back from the gate and got it all checked in properly, but some report must have been filed.

TSA is part of Homeland Security.

 

[James Riley]

The checked luggage goes through an X-ray machine and they noticed it there (Golly, that's not a clarinet in that gun case!). They called my wife back from the gate and got it all checked in properly, but some report must have been filed.

TSA is part of Homeland Security.

Oh, now I see. I can't answer your question though. Common sense would say that it all should have been handled at the time, and it sounds like most of it was, except this BS penalty. But I don't believe TSA has much common sense. Do they have evidence that it was NOT made abundantly clear at check in? I mean, if you tell Dufus that it's a gun and he fails to follow through on his end, with his obligations, I don't see how that is on you. You don't have a duty to slap him and say "Hey, Dufus, this is a weapon!"

I don't know if exercising your administrative appeal rights would work against you if the ultimate finding is against you. You could try calling and ask. Sorry it happened. Good luck with this.

 

[RobG]

Oh, now I see. I can't answer your question though. Common sense would say that it all should have been handled at the time, and it sounds like most of it was, except this BS penalty. But I don't believe TSA has much common sense. Do they have evidence that it was NOT made abundantly clear at check in? I mean, if you tell Dufus that it's a gun and he fails to follow through on his end, with his obligations, I don't see how that is on you. You don't have a duty to slap him and say "Hey, Dufus, this is a weapon!"

I don't know if exercising your administrative appeal rights would work against you if the ultimate finding is against you. You could try calling and ask. Sorry it happened. Good luck with this.

IIRC you are supposed to tell the agent when you check the gun and he'll give you a card to fill out. I've done it before and it's painless, but didn't realize my wife hadn't. My bad for not explaining to her what to expect. You'd think the agent would be a little more aware of things designed to carry guns.

They don't give a phone number so the only way to communicate is through writing. I'm just wondering if trying to negotiate will drag it out past 30 days and I'll wind up owing $500 instead of $250.

 

[mtmander]

remember you are dealing with the government , so common sense does not apply

 

[James Riley]

IIRC you are supposed to tell the agent when you check the gun and he'll give you a card to fill out. I've done it before and it's painless, but didn't realize my wife hadn't. My bad for not explaining to her what to expect. You'd think the agent would be a little more aware of things designed to carry guns.

They don't give a phone number so the only way to communicate is through writing. I'm just wondering if trying to negotiate will drag it out past 30 days and I'll wind up owing $500 instead of $250.

Either way, the letter should clearly state the statutory authority under which they are working when imposing fines. Once you have that, you probably have to find the regulation (CFR) section they promulgated pursuant to that statute which would lay out the fines and the process.

Personally, I would start the process now and see; making sure I got them the $250.00 on time. They may credit some or all of that back. The two ways to get it back: 1. Appeal to their administrative discretion; or 2. Show them how their process is a violation of your rights or their protocol.

I would not go to the mat over this because it's a waste of time and money. I'd take my lumps. Mohamed Atta and Usama Bin Laden are laughing in their graves as WE do this to OURSELVES.

Let us know how it works out.

 

[ElkHunter11]

Long story short, someone (disclaimer: it wasn't me) didn't make it abundantly clear there was a rifle in the rifle case that she checked as luggage. The Penn State dropout working the luggage counter thought it was a band instrument.

So, 4 months later we got a letter saying we owe TSA $500, or $250 if we pay within 30 days. There are are some options such requesting a informal or formal hearing or asking for a reduced penalty (must give reason).

Anyone been down this road before? If we request an informal hearing or reduced penalty is it going to take more than 30 days and we'll be out $500?

I've been in this predicament before.. PM me if you want. Long story short on my end as well, I ended up calling TSA and got out of it with a warning.

 

[RobG]

Thanks ElkHunter. It turns out there is a phone number on the notice for "A. Miranda" to call with questions. That's an interesting name. ("To hear your right to remain silent press '1'.").

It is ironic that if you accidentally put your hunting knife in your carry-on you don't have to go through this. I'm not sure why they fear a checked gun. Maybe they just want to verify that it is unloaded so it doesn't go off during flight.

 

[Sytes]

Often times, as in Elkhunter's case, a call or appeal will side with the traveler. I'm not with TSA though another within Homeland Security and mitigation is the norm. Share the setting in writing or phone and I would be surprised if you were held to pay the full penalty.

...It is ironic that if you accidentally put your hunting knife in your carry-on you don't have to go through this. I'm not sure why they fear a checked gun. Maybe they just want to verify that it is unloaded so it doesn't go off during flight.

This is just my opinion however I believe the difference rests in the frequency. The operations cost necessary to staff and generate reports, the additional TSA staffing to begin the process for each knife found in carry-on baggage would be out of this world! Meh, who knows..

 

[RobG]

Hell, she called the number on the letter (which we didn't see at first) and told the agent nicely that it was an honest mistake so they changed it to a warning and waived the fine. The lady was very nice and said most people don't call and just pay the fine.

 

[sra61]

Good Information.

 

[Timberhawk]

Good to know and good that common sense prevailed. Thanks for sharing.

 

[James Riley]

Hell, she called the number on the letter (which we didn't see at first) and told the agent nicely that it was an honest mistake so they changed it to a warning and waived the fine. The lady was very nice and said most people don't call and just pay the fine.

Good job! Nice to hear. When flying back from Florida once, I checked my pistol and all properly but I forgot to take off my Leatherman. The TSA handed me an envelope and asked me to address it. They dropped the Leatherman in it and said it should be at home in a week. It was. I didn't pay postage (except with my taxes).

I went to their web site and gave them props. Your wife might do that too. It will encourage them to utilize their discretion with some common sense/empathy.

 

[ericsplls]

That's good that they reduced the charge to a warning. I did the multi tool in the carry on bag a few years ago. Bad thing is that was my final flight of four that week and it was in the backpack the other three times I went through security. They offered to allow me to take it back and check it. After an hour of standing in line the first time I just told them merry Christmas.

 

[RobG]

That's good that they reduced the charge to a warning. I did the multi tool in the carry on bag a few years ago. Bad thing is that was my final flight of four that week and it was in the backpack the other three times I went through security. They offered to allow me to take it back and check it. After an hour of standing in line the first time I just told them merry Christmas.

A friend told me he leaves one of those prepaid envelopes in his carry-on bag just in case he does something like this. Seems like a good idea.

 

[Tufrthnails]

Good lesson to learn and thanks for passing it on giving all of us a reminder how diligent me must be flying these days. Surprisingly I have never had a problem flying with firearms. The worst thin I had an issue with was a blank fired 5.56 that I drilled out and engraved. I put it on my keys. I fired this round during the salute to my buddy that didn't get to come home without an escort from the sandbox. So to say it has sentimental value is an understatement. I took me an hour to explain I had traveled with it for the last 2 flights without a question. They finally allowed me to mail it back to myself, but I was on the verge of getting arrested as I was not a happy camper. What finally help was another veteran higher n the chain was finally brought in to question me. RIP Seth you are not forgotten.