Nope smokers not allowed

[Exhausted]

Orrrr, the person might be better able to put up with the personality flaws of those around him/her.

Such an ability itself, absent the external assistance, a personality strength, no? And if the others are so regularly insufferable, again, there are probably larger problems at play.

That's not necessarily addiction. Addiction requires harm associated with the continued use.

If you have a beer or a glass of wine every day when you get home from work to relax that's not addiction, even if it's every single day. If you drink a bottle and are consistently late for work then it's impacting yours or other peoples lives negatively. That's an addiction.

I drink a lot. I like it. It doesn't impact my life at all.

I used to drink a lot of coffee. If I didn't have caffeine by 7 a.m I'd have a raging migraine all day. That was an addiction.

If you don't drink alcohol for the next day or two would you have any withdrawal symptoms?

I'm totally addicted to caffeine. And my body expects similar dosages every day even. If I only have one cup tomorrow morning and not a second cup in the afternoon I'll have a headache well before bed.

 

[SAJ-99]

Mental Health is a strange thing.

Ain't that the truth.

Such an ability itself, absent the external assistance, a personality strength, no?

Oh sure. But not one many possess, including myself. I'm just at the point of my life where I walk away rather than suffer the fool. No external assistance needed for that.

Back to the point of the thread, the form says "user of or addicted to". I always wondered what if someone is on Prozac or some anti depressant. Do they answer "yes"? And anyone know what happens. It is an automatic denial? The form is seems to be something where if the ATF was able to dig far enough into someone's background they will find something on about half the people. Anyone who has ever gone through a thorough background check will probably agree.

 

[Irrelevant]

I think, if we're honest with ourselves, the reason we are "better" is because we're using the addiction to numb or mute a flawed part of our personality.

And there is zero reason we can't fix (not saying easily or quickly) that flawed part with something other than an addiction.

Fix? Try, yes. Work on, certainly. But, fix? Call me skeptical that we ever "fix" our flaws or simply learn to mask them. Nor am I convinced that all flaws should be fixed. Much of what defines us as individuals is our flaws. Perfection is both overrated and unattainable.

but that's fundamentally addiction right?

100%, and I would never deny that. But I don't think addiction is intrinsically bad. It can be bad.

 

[idelkslayer]

Fix? Try, yes. Work on, certainly. But, fix? Call me skeptical that we ever "fix" our flaws or simply learn to mask them. Nor am I convinced that all flaws should be fixed. Much of what defines us as individuals is our flaws. Perfection is both overrated and unattainable.

100%, and I would never deny that. But I don't think addiction is intrinsically bad. It can be bad.

I have a tongue-in-cheek question, bringing this back to mingling substance use with firearms. Harkening back to your comment about a drink after work makes you better able to deal with kids or other annoyances.

Would you prescribe a beer before the hunt as method to relax and be better able to control "buck fever"? A beer before target shooting to calm the nerves? If not, why not? If yes, how is it justifiable?

 

[elkduds]

Red Herring as it relates to this discussion. Does caffeine result in cognitive impairment and memory deficits?

 

[SaskHunter]

Missing any discussion here about whether pot smoking leads to greater Tillamook consumption.

 

[Exhausted]

Back to the point of the thread, the form says "user of or addicted to". I always wondered what if someone is on Prozac or some anti depressant. Do they answer "yes"? And anyone know what happens. It is an automatic denial? The form is seems to be something where if the ATF was able to dig far enough into someone's background they will find something on about half the people. Anyone who has ever gone through a thorough background check will probably agree.

I've often wondered how many people actually get that far in the buying process and would still answer that honestly. Like, if they are confident there are no other issues that might arise, would they really risk it by saying, "By golly I'm glad you asked, I've been using XXXX to XXXX every week for the last year."

And if they aren't willing to lie about it, how many just abandon the purchase altogether instead of completing the form?

 

[Ben Lamb]

View attachment 404336

 

[TOGIE]

100%, and I would never deny that. But I don't think addiction is intrinsically bad. It can be bad.

I would argue addiction is intrinsically bad from one perspective: It reduces/eliminates rationality.

That's why addiction is so borderline impossible to rid yourself of - the tiniest little positive the brain can find becomes a perceived colossal net positive, the fixation of which drowns out any other rational thought; it sits you precariously on the precipice of a slippery slope, even if your not slipping yet.

That's a dangerous place to be for many obvious reasons. Especially when the substance in question is labeled carcinogenic by WHO.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

When the preaching starts - I tend to think about catholic priest syndrome. I’ve got childhood mormon battle scars. Try attending 2nd grade in Rigby Idaho not being a sheeple…

I’m a precision marksman with a high BAC.

 

[Forkyfinder]

When the preaching starts - I tend to think about catholic priest syndrome. I’ve got childhood mormon battle scars. Trying attending 2nd grade in Rigby Idaho not being a sheeple…

I’m a precision marksman with a high BAC.

8 shots a day only makes you an occassional drunkard

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

If you don't drink alcohol for the next day or two would you have any withdrawal symptoms?

I'm totally addicted to caffeine. And my body expects similar dosages every day even. If I only have one cup tomorrow morning and not a second cup in the afternoon I'll have a headache well before bed.

Nope. I frequently go weeks without drinking. I've gone for many months before. It's easy for me, and many other people.

Disclaimer: I know it's not easy for everyone. But it's also not problematic for everyone.

Same went for caffeine. I love coffee. I like the social aspect of drinking coffee. I enjoy the drink itself. During COVID the admin assistant and I would drink 2 pots per day between just the two of us. The reliance started bothering me some time ago, but I genuinely enjoy coffee so I didn't do anything about it.

During my Nevada hunt in October I slept in after packing my buck out. Woke up around 8 with a headache and decided this was as good a time as any to quit and I did. Zero caffeine since Oct now.

Back to the point of the thread, the form says "user of or addicted to". I always wondered what if someone is on Prozac or some anti depressant. Do they answer "yes"? And anyone know what happens. It is an automatic denial? The form is seems to be something where if the ATF was able to dig far enough into someone's background they will find something on about half the people. Anyone who has ever gone through a thorough background check will probably agree.

I believe the wording on that question is "unlawful user of or addicted to"

If it's a prescription you aren't an unlawful user.

100%, and I would never deny that. But I don't think addiction is intrinsically bad. It can be bad.

A habit is not necessarily an addiction. Addictions by definition come with problems.

 

[elkduds]

8 shots a day only makes you an occassional drunkard

Grounds for recusal?

 

[TOGIE]

A habit is not necessarily an addiction. Addictions by definition come with problems.

maybe we ought to switch over to the term dependence.

but i'm in the camp that dependence or addiction to alcohol is tomayto tomahto. alcohol is intrinsically bad for your body (some people will certainly debate me on that) so i'm going to qualify daily drinking for one's betterment as addiction.

i'm not here to tell anyone to stop having a couple beers every evening, really not a big deal, but just call it what it is if it's something you feel you "need" to do. in any event there's certainly a scale to the negative ramifications, statistically, and some people also just have resilient genetics.

i ain't judging. i like alcohol, cigarettes, chew, and zyn.

 

[idelkslayer]

When the preaching starts - I tend to think about catholic priest syndrome. I’ve got childhood mormon battle scars. Try attending 2nd grade in Rigby Idaho not being a sheeple…

I’m a precision marksman with a high BAC.

Fair enough. Not all mormons are from the Utah/Southern Idaho stronghold. I've got battle scars of my own being a minority in my hometown and places of work.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

maybe we ought to switch over to the term dependence.

but i'm in the camp that dependence or addiction to alcohol is tomayto tomahto. alcohol is intrinsically bad for your body (some people will certainly debate me on that) so i'm going to qualify daily drinking for one's betterment as addiction.

i'm not here to tell anyone to stop having a couple beers every evening, really not a big deal, but just call it what it is if it's something you feel you "need" to do. in any event there's certainly a scale to the negative ramifications, statistically, and some people also just have resilient genetics.

i ain't judging. i like alcohol, cigarettes, chew, and zyn.

I think substance abuse experts would disagree. The few relevant classes I took in college certainly would. The harm from moderate consumption wouldn't count. Nobody is addicted to red meat because they eat it most days and it will probably give them heart disease or cancer.

I think it's sort of gallows humor in our generation to joke about alcoholism, and I have a lot of friends that do it. None of them are alcoholics. They could quit if they wanted to, but their drinking isn't significantly impacting their life, otherwise they would want to quit. I have a family member that pissed their pants in the salesmans office while buying a new camp trailer and used to drink vodka out of a coffee cup to hide it from people. That's addiction.

 

[Exhausted]

Nope. I frequently go weeks without drinking. I've gone for many months before. It's easy for me, and many other people.

If you aren't drinking frequently, how much are you drinking when you do drink to make the statement, "I drink a lot."?

I'm just curious because I'm also not addicted to caffeine, and don't suffer headaches, if I'm only drinking it in spurts rather than every day.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

If you aren't drinking frequently, how much are you drinking when you do drink to make the statement, "I drink a lot."?

I'm just curious because I'm also not addicted to caffeine, and don't suffer headaches, if I'm only drinking it in spurts rather than every day.

Sometimes I drink 7 days a week, sometimes I drink 0. Sometimes it's 1, sometimes it's 12. Time and place dependent.

 

[TOGIE]

Nobody is addicted to red meat because they eat it most days and it will probably give them heart disease or cancer.

pfffft do people still actually believe red meat is bad for you?

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

pfffft do people still actually believe red meat is bad for you?

My doctor every time he reads my cholesterol. But I'm pretty sure it's just my nerve wrackin sons of bitches alcoholic family driving those numbers up.