No King's Deer

Elky Welky

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Something about this weekend inspired me to think about this topic. But basically, what sets the United States apart from so many other countries is that wildlife is not tied to the land, but instead the management thereof belongs to the people. This is, of course and sadly, in theory moreso than in practice in many places. Some states, like those along the east coast and in the South, have such limited public land that I've noticed people from those places tend to equivocate the ownership of land and the access to the wildlife as being one in the same.

But the myth of Robin Hood was originally as a "poacher" in a different sense of the word, because he would kill the "King's Deer" to feed the poor. Ownership of the wildlife was with the Crown, not the people. This is illustrated in one of the earliest property law cases out of New York State that all law students in the US have to read, Pierson v. Post, which was decided in 1805. The case is about a fox hunt in which one hunter felt they were entitled to a fox because they were the one hunting it, and then someone else killed it. The Court found that until the animal was reduced to "capture" and within the possession of the hunter, that it was, quite literally, fair game:

"We are the more readily inclined to confine possession or occupancy of beasts feræ naturæ, within the limits prescribed by the learned authors above cited, for the sake of certainty, and preserving peace and order in society. If the first seeing, starting, or pursuing such animals, without having so wounded, circumvented or ensnared them, so as to deprive them of their natural liberty, and subject them to the control of their pursuer, should afford the basis of actions against others for intercepting and killing them, it would prove a fertile source of quarrels and litigation."

Earlier in the case, the Court considers the concept of "ratione soli" which is fancy latin for: "by reason of the soil." This concept is exactly that: if someone owns the land, they own the wildlife. This was not explicitly adjudicated one way or another in this case (as it occurred on what would now be considered public). However, the rationale that the Court used to find that until the animal is deprived of its liberty by one hunter, it is not owned by any other hunter, supports the notion that in America, at least, wildlife belongs to us all.

I've seen people on this website tie themselves in knots to justify giving away wildlife based upon landownership, and cherry pick the NAM to justify those ends. By arguing that the legislature can vote to give away wildlife to landowners, the argument goes, the wildlife has therefore been "democratically allocated" per the 3rd tenet of the NAM. This ignores the 6th, however, which states that every person has an opportunity under the law to hunt and fish. Depending on the website you use (B&C, Fish and Wildlife Service, etc.) the NAM becomes more flexible. But at no point does it apply the Animal Farm logic of "everyone is equal, just some are more equal than others" or quantify opportunity based upon wealth and landownership.

As shown above, this uniquely American ideal, however, of rejecting the King and the King's Deer, is deeper than the NAM.

I proudly sport a "Don't Texas My Montana" bumper sticker (thanks @Beignet). As a born and raised Montanan, I still believe that our wildlife belongs to us all, and landownership is wholly irrelevant. But as more people from states with less public land migrate here, they seem to be bringing some of the old-world views that the landed gentry are somehow more entitled to our wildlife than the rest of us.

If we don't continue to stand up against this notion of the King's Deer, however, then we will suddenly find ourselves back in the service of Kings. And that, my friends, is un-American.
 
I remind myself that every single day some politician, corporation, special interest group, industry or other entity is trying to steal the public's water, land or wildlife. Those attacks come in different forms, and IMO those efforts are intensifying.

Re wildlife, special tags based on land ownership have shown considerable success of late. Access to surface waters is restricted in many States, and is continually under attack here in Montana. Dumbing down water quality standards away from numerical standards to now having to prove damage before action is taken. Dumbing down both NEPA and MEPA allow more damaging actions without fully disclosing the consequences.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of hunters and anglers will remain complacent until it will be gone.....and then say "someone should have done something about that"...and of course most of those erosive changes are irreversible.
 
I don't understand why you advocate so much for private land access and tags on a forum dedicated to public land and the ability of us to hunt it. mtmuley

Providing public access to private land is a huge benefit of these programs, perhaps the biggest of many.

BMA-enrolled lands are also private. Are you equally offended to see them being discussed on this forum?
 
Providing public access to private land is a huge benefit of these programs, perhaps the biggest of many.

BMA-enrolled lands are also private. Are you equally offended to see them being discussed on this forum?
I belive a transferable landowner tags = whoever pays the highest price for said tag.

BMA = open to anyone regardless of what their financial situation is and actually increases public access.
 
Huh? How do you draw equivalency between the two subjects?

How do you not?

Both programs compensate private land owners for their role in improving game populations/public hunting access. Both programs significantly improve public access to otherwise-inaccessible private lands.

BMA has fallen on hard times a bit lately, it may be time to consider other/additional options.
 
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I belive a transferable landowner tags = whoever pays the highest price for said tag.

BMA = open to anyone regardless of what their financial situation is and actually increases public access.

It’s up to state residents to craft a program that benefits everyone. New Mexico has provided a template of a good start, in my opinion.

I’m not sure if you’re aware, but BMA enrollment is trending downward. In addition, there are problems with user experience that have been well-documented here on Hunt Talk. It was a nice program in its time (except for the Type-2 mess), but the arrow is pointing in a troubling direction.
 
NM is the most fphugged state in the west for NR hunter opportunities- YOU can go phucq yourself!!

I’m not sure I agree, the New Mexico landowner tag program is very well structured in my opinion. Colorado’s program is decent as well, but does not provide the same level of public access that New Mexico does.

And no thanks on the other part🙂
 
I've seen people on this website tie themselves in knots to justify giving away wildlife based upon landownership, and cherry pick the NAM to justify those ends.

Does it concern you that the concept of state owned wildlife is in conflict with the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th pillars of the NAM?
 
To play devil's advocate a bit.

The public can hunt public lands. They already can't explicitly hunt private, so granting wildlife to land ownership would change very little. And "the public" doesn't own the wildlife, with a few exceptions, the state holds it in trust for it's citizens. The difference is incredibly stark for NR when compared to actual "public" land. A fact you'll support because you "were born and raised" in Montana and not RI. NAM isn't intrinsically any better than any other system, they all have there merits and shortcomings, and, most importantly, they can all be abused. We have NAM as a response to the system we were under that was abused.
 

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