NM elks...
- Thread starter hank4elk
- Start date
Derek44
Well-known member
Amazing writing. Interesting stories. Wholesome Fun. Thanks for sharing Hank. You and Rio always make me smile
140 AC private tags. Only in New Mexico. In both UT and NV 10,000 acres required to qualify for landowner tags. And in both UT and NV direct public benefit is required to obtain private tags. In UT between 10% and 20% of the private land tags must be in the draw for UT residents only. In NV to be awarded private tags the landowner must grant public elk hunting access to landlocked and adjacent public land. In NM there is no requirement for public benefit in return for private privilege. EPLUS unit wide doesn't qualify because to be unit wide is up to the landowner greatly skewing the unit wide selection toward instances where the private privilege greatly outweighs the public benefit.
Seems that most people think this is a cool hunting story. But as a New Mexican i have a different opinion. It is a story about how screwed up New Mexico's wholesale privatization of its big game tags is. Over 40% of New Mexico's elk tags are privatized by private landowner permits and the outfitter draw set aside. Well over 90% of the privatized tags go to nonresident hunters. But does that really matter much? Whether the private tags go to a wealthy resident or wealthy nonresident is largely irrelevant. Either way they turn the public trust on its head.
Your entitled to your opine.
I'm hunting a draw tag. 4th in 4 years run.
My LO tags are ranch only.
I gave them away this year, again. To a local and out of staters.
There would not be the elk in NM if not for landowners.
G&F & residents would just wipe them out like they did most other big game.
My opine.
I'm hunting a draw tag. 4th in 4 years run.
My LO tags are ranch only.
I gave them away this year, again. To a local and out of staters.
There would not be the elk in NM if not for landowners.
G&F & residents would just wipe them out like they did most other big game.
My opine.
Brand new remastered from PF records. Dark Side of the Moon.Pink Floyd?
Since you dumped in my nest.
In 14 years I have sold 4 tags.
80% have gone to locals. Given or trade out.
I'm obviously dumb and old. Not wealthy.
This is what I have done for NM wildlife.
What have you done?
seeth07
Well-known member
Ruh roh!
Link zoinks Scooby-Doo, someone like upset Hank!
Link zoinks Scooby-Doo, someone like upset Hank!
seeth07
Well-known member
Wait, how did he miss that the name is "hank4elk"?
I think he lost his chance for help with the sheep tag from anyone that also is reading this thread?
I think he lost his chance for help with the sheep tag from anyone that also is reading this thread?
Riddle me this. By your logic, how can there be elk in places like AZ and MT and all across the west wo landowner permits? No state does what NM does with regards to privatization.
Not that it matters what I have done or you have done when it comes to state policy, but my grandparents were awarded Landowner of the Year by the Colorado Division of Wildlife. They neither expected nor received any compensation, benefits, or anything in return. I put thousands of hours of hard work into helping create and maintain the habitat conditions that resulted in that award. I do know a little about private land wildlife. In New Mexico many landowners understandably have been trained by our laws and regulations to believe they owed for maintaining anything for wildlife. I believe you would do the same things you do for wildlife if there were no landowner permits. So what's the point of them? In New Mexico elk and wildlife are portrayed by landowners a nuisance and a liability. But what is the value of land with versus without wildlife? What do ranch real estate advertisements start with if there is wildlife? Things like "abundant wildlife". If wildlife were the liability that NM landowners so often proclaim wildlife wouldn't be a leading claim in real estate ads. It would be buried in disclosure statements.
RoughCountry
Active member
I think the NM eplus is a great opportunity to hunt elk that are so hard to draw a tag for. So many private acres are turned into open elk hunting land for hunters with tags. I have drawn some elk tags in NM and I’ve bought some landowner tags. I hope the sale of tags helps whoever sells them. Great way for someone to make some extra money and a great way for someone to hunt elk and a great way to open a lot of private land to hunting !
elkduds
Well-known member
Your critique of NM game management policy is worth considering. This thread is not the place to do so.
@hank4elk didn't make the laws, doesn't profit from them, and if you read his posting history, uses his tags to help neighbors and even some HT amigos. The tanks he created vastly improved wildlife habitat for the surrounding area. He takes a little from the land, and returns a lot.
Plus he is the real deal in an age that rarely recognizes them: a old gringo combat veteran surfer LEO who found his quiet place in NM's back 40, where he lives with his dog, his stereo and his memories. He doesn't post much about his service, his struggles, his generosity. Have at least the modicum of respect necessary to go where this thread is taking us, and grind the axe elsewhere.
WildWill
Well-known member
Then start your own thread and tell us all about it. But don't start a dumpster fire on one of the nicest guys on here's annual elk thread.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Believe me. It’s not “just one guy” in New Mexico Just in the last 5 years or so the proportion of New Mexican hunters that have come to understand and despise NM privatization has gone from a minority to a large minority. It’s a phenomenon and attitude that will never go backwards. This is why the privateers are so pissed off and worried. They know the cat is out of the bag forever on privatization in New Mexico. The privateers and policy makers in New Mexico are on their heels now. The current level of privatization in NM came to be over 50 years. I am not so naive to think that it is going to reverse rapidly. But because of the near universal opposition among New Mexican hunters opposed to privatization I have no doubt that change in favor of the New Mexico public is coming. Our big game will be de-privatized. How long do you think the state policy makers like the game commission can sit like dumb mutes when New Mexican after New Mexican stands up and rails about private tags and the outfitter draw set aside? How many newspaper editorials, articles, and letters to the editor lambasting the private system and the policymakers that hold onto it do you think the politicians can withstand before they have to change course. I can’t really say. But change is coming.
If it wasn’t such an important policy issue for New Mexican hunters it would be amusing to read and hear the comments, like yours, that instead of even attempting to defend NM privatization only disparage the messenger. When the response from one side is juvenile and doesn’t speak to the issue one can be pretty sure that side can’t defend its position and policy preferences.
I don't know anything about New Mexico's wildlife regulations. Probably a great topic. But could you please start its own thread? I enjoy reading about Hank and Rio's adventures.
Now Hank, I don't know what I was expecting Rio to look like, but that is the first picture of Rio I have seen. And he is not at all the dog I thought he was. I had him way smaller and black/grey. He is a big lug to have on your bed! Give him a scratch from this random guy on the internet!
Now Hank, I don't know what I was expecting Rio to look like, but that is the first picture of Rio I have seen. And he is not at all the dog I thought he was. I had him way smaller and black/grey. He is a big lug to have on your bed! Give him a scratch from this random guy on the internet!
“So many private acres are turned into open elk hunting land” ? Based on the reality of the situation that is a laughable supposition. With the enormous disincentive to open gate type agreements and other public access that private tags represent the amount of private land open to public hunting is a rounding error compared to other western states. NM has 34,500 aces of open gate. And 171,000 acres in unit wide EPLUS. About 200,000 acres. Arizona and Montana that have no transferable private elk tags have 4 million and 6.8 acres respectively. This even when unit wide EPLUS private land shouldn’t even be considered as open gate because to be unit wide or ranch only is up to the landowner. This obviously wildly skews the selection of unit wide to lands that don’t have valuable hunting access to either sell privately or to enter into open gate. The value is artificially created and then privatized by the public unit wide nature of the permit.
So your argument boils down to since you have been able to afford to buy private elk permits its good public policy? How many private elk permits have you bought? How much did you pay for each? What units? How many acres were the properties? How many were unit wide or ranch only? Did you hunt on the property that received the permit authorization? Or did you hunt public land or other private land in the unit?Answer those questions and we can evaluate just how fantastic you have shown EPLUS to be for the public. Especially the New Mexican public.
