Newb wants to get into sporting dogs.

[44hunter45]

We have had either ranch dogs or rescue sporting dogs for the last 4 decades.

I watched a buddy accidentally shoot his GSP with a .22 LR years ago. It was not the dog's fault. Bill (not his name) was just not a safe guy to be around if there were guns.
I'm not going to lie, that really traumatized me. There was one other flagging incident later that broke me of hunting with Bill. Not going into that incident here.

Long story short - Our last dog, a rescue Brittany/Border Collie cross, recently died. Sadie had a lot of heart, but she would as soon herd birds as point them.

It is my turn to pick out our next dog. I need advice from you more seasoned dog guys in picking a breed.

@El Jason has me wanting a Deutsch-Drahthaar, but I don't think I have the time, energy, and patience to do one justice. I will be retiring 4-5 years from now, but I think it is smarter to get a "lower end" dog now and learn the ropes. I hope that doesn't offend anyone, I don't know enough about dogs to know low from high.

When I think of idiot proof sporting breeds, Labs come first to mind.

While I may get into waterfowling some day, I'm more of an upland guy. Can a Lab be an upland dog?


Educate me please.

 

[El Jason]

Can a Lab be an upland dog?

Yes. It’s a different style of hunting for sure.

 

[44hunter45]

Grouse and quail mostly, then pheasant. Huns and chukars if I ever get in good enough shape again.

Indoors if the dog gets along with MRS' cats. Raised from a pup, so I'm hoping that works out.

 

[morley.tyler]

I grew up on Labs for Grouse and Ducks in 7B, but eventually my old man moved on to a GSP, and we hunted a lot around 1L & N counties. Great dog. Good in both the house and the field. His came from some great folks, not too far from you: https://www.littlecanyonshooting.com/our-destination/dogsandkennels/

I have no affiliation w/ this business.

 

[Matthew57]

Looking forward to following this one. A lab sounds like a pretty good choice to me for grouse and quail. You may consider what pace you want to hunt at. Sometimes hunting with my field golden I honestly have to run a bit to keep up when she's birdy. She's great at flushing pheasants but if they aren't in range, it's a little exasperating haha. Hunting chukar with a lab to me sounds pretty tough but probably doable.

 

[44hunter45]

Looking forward to following this one. A lab sounds like a pretty good choice to me for grouse and quail. You may consider what pace you want to hunt at. Sometimes hunting with my field golden I honestly have to run a bit to keep up when she's birdy. She's great at flushing pheasants but if they aren't in range, it's a little exasperating haha. Hunting chukar with a lab to me sounds pretty tough but probably doable.

Adding house temperament to the list. Any candidate would need to be able to chill alone after the puppy stage.

 

[El Jason]

Adding house temperament to the list. Any candidate would need to be able to chill alone after the puppy stage.

This is a must have IMO

 

[Hunting Wife]

We’ve hunted ruffed grouse, mountain quail, sharpies, huns, sage grouse, doves, pheasants, geese, ducks, and a swan or two with this old girl. She’s retired now, but most shortcomings have been ours, not hers. She’s done whatever we’ve asked of her.



Someone told us that if you have a dog that loves birds, the best training is just getting them out in birdy country. Then we just taught her to hunt the way we want to hunt, which is essentially just variations on obedience. Maybe the greatest quality of a Lab- they love their people and want so badly to please you. You can teach them just about anything, even if you don’t know much about training. At least that’s how it was for us.

 

[44hunter45]

I’m more and more the big and goofy suits me well

 

[JLDemo]

I'm currently in my first bird dog journey, biggest lesson I've learned in my pups first year of life is that I have needed way more training than he. A lot of what I wanted in a dog came naturally to the pup, it was me who had no clue how to run with what was already programmed. Read up on everything you can, watch videos, and ask yourself what you really want before making a final decision.

There are breeders who specifically target pointing labs, no experience with them, but they're out there. One here in Cheyenne actually.

From the sound of it, you might want to consider a started pup or rescue bird dog, at least initially. Then when you retire, get a pup. Pups demand a lot of attention and consistent training in their first year, but you also must let them be a pup. There's a few really good rescues and second chance bird dog outfits around.

If you can, research the dogs parents before buying, verify that the dog is coming from a hunting line. You just have to narrow down what you want and chose accordingly. Be aware, there are people out there who are extremely biased about a specific breed. I was told during a local training session that I'd never harvest a Sharp tail with the dog I have just because of the breed. I can't frickin wait to be super petty and send that fella a post card with my dogs face retrieving a sharpie.

You'll also need to ask yourself what you really want in a dog;

What's the dogs range your looking for compared to your style?
Hunting birds in foot? Horseback?
Short hair? Wire hair?
Sheds, no shedding, or low maintenance coats?
Fast burner or a methodical working dog?
What temperament do you want?
Size?

Breeding programs need a lot of research before making a purchase.

Do you want to run the dog through any kind of hunt tests? If so, you'll need to do some homework on the dog and the testing systems as all have their differences. From the German testing systems, NAVHDA, AKC, to shoot to retrieve, all have their pro and cons but you and your dog can benefit from any of them. Excellent training resources with all.

Those are just a few questions out of a million you could ask.

I'm not going to suggest specific breeds, as I've only ever owned one breed so far. But I've had a lot of fun, even with the pups and my screw ups along the way. I can honestly say that having a versatile gun dog has been a game changer, now I have to keep talking myself out of a second one!

Please make your decision before you buy or rescue a pup, I bought a pup before I did any research and found myself scrambling. Luckily I got a pup who loves to learn and loves birds. I'm the one who needs all the help I can get.

 

[Bonasababy]

Not that a flusher can't work but your hunting preferences lean more towards a pointing breed, IMO.

Personally, I would not start with a Draughthar or DK... they can be a lot of dog to deal with.

GSPs or Brittany's from decent breeding would be a great starting point IMO.

 

[El Jason]

Not that a flusher can't work but your hunting preferences lean more towards a pointing breed, IMO.

Personally, I would not start with a Draughthar or DK... they can be a lot of dog to deal with.

GSPs or Brittany's from decent breeding would be a great starting point IMO.

There is no difference between a GSP and a DK as far as a dog that can be a lot to deal with. If anything, the DK is probably going to be more mentally stable and have a better off switch.

 

[Bonasababy]

There is no difference between a GSP and a DK as far as a dog that can be a lot to deal with. If anything, the DK is probably going to be more mentally stable and have a better off switch.

Not my experience, yours may be different.

 

[JLDemo]

Not my experience, yours may be different.

Breeding standards will play a part in the dogs behavior and being biddable. The German standards, such as those with the DD's, are very complex, and strict, thus having a higher probability of producing good pups. Always have a chance at a bad apple, as with anything.

Everyone's experience will differ, but you can certainly increase your odds with tons of research on the pedigree, meeting or hunting with the breeding pair. Buying a breed or from a breeder that has followed standards for some time should be a must.

@44hunter45 Thought's on all the opinions and info?

 

[Bonasababy]

Breeding standards will play a part in the dogs behavior and being biddable. The German standards, such as those with the DD's, are very complex, and strict, thus having a higher probability of producing good pups. Always have a chance at a bad apple, as with anything.

Everyone's experience will differ, but you can certainly increase your odds with tons of research on the pedigree, meeting or hunting with the breeding pair. Buying a breed or from a breeder that has followed standards for some time should be a must.

@44hunter45 Thought's on all the opinions and info?

Those standards can lead to qualities that some....OK I suspect many...might not appreciate. The other problem I have seen is not due to standards that I know of, and could be contributed to owners lacking the strong and firm training approach needed to correct it.

Not saying dont consider them at all, but I dont think a first timer is a good fit.

 

[El Jason]

Those standards can lead to qualities that some....OK I suspect many...might not appreciate. The other problem I have seen is not due to standards that I know of, and could be contributed to owners lacking the strong and firm training approach needed to correct it.

Not saying dont consider them at all, but I dont think a first timer is a good fit.

Are you referring to sharpness on fur? They are, and per breed standards it’s expected. That said, I haven’t seen a huge difference between the German dogs and GSP/GWP and even some Brittanies.

I’ve judged a fair number of dogs and it’s entirely reasonable for a first time dog handler to have a very nice DD/DK as a hunting partner. They aren’t for everyone, but there is no reason for a first timer to automatically write them off.

 

[Bonasababy]

Are you referring to sharpness on fur? They are, and per breed standards it’s expected. That said, I haven’t seen a huge difference between the German dogs and GSP/GWP and even some Brittanies.

I’ve judged a fair number of dogs and it’s entirely reasonable for a first time dog handler to have a very nice DD/DK as a hunting partner. They aren’t for everyone, but there is no reason for a first timer to automatically write them off.

Yes fur sharpness--and aggressiveness towards other dogs. The latter can be handled in training of course but seen and had judges tell me of the problem in both being an issue. Fur sharpness can be an issue in any versatile breed-- but with DD's and DK's being that it's required for testing and testing determines whether breeding is allowed--you just up the chances of it being a real problem. Where I hunt it would be endless porkies and skunk and coon encounters...and vet bills on occasion for what I can't take care of myself.

As noted though I doubt any of them won't be a good hunter with decent training. Ready to go on that if they aren't messed up with handling/training. Both tend to have better coats for waterfowling on average too I believe--if that's a desire. DD's are ideal waterfowl/upland dogs IMO unless you hunt very late or in very cold water often.

 

[El Jason]

Aggressive behavior towards other dogs or people is an automatic breeding disqualifier within the German system. Not to say it doesn’t exist, because it does. I’ve seen dogs get flagged for it and been part of the discussion when we flagged one.

I have never had an issue with porcupines with other of my drahts. That’s where the mental stability and cooperation come into play. It’s not that hard to call your dog off something you don’t want it on. I don’t think my DDs are any more prone to skunks and porkies than my lab was.

 

[brockel]

We got an English cocker spaniel last year and I don’t think I will ever be without one again. He has been a great family dog. Loves playing with the kids and bird hunting. Small enough he can travel with us. Tons of energy outside but you come inside and he’d sit all day on the couch with you if you wanted. Was super simple training too