New to ML hunting

[WildWill]

300 yards is well within the ethical and practical limits of most rifles/shooters.

I completely disagree that 300 yards is within MOST shooter's ability with a scope less muzzleloader. Hell it's out of most muzzleloader hunter's I've met ability with a scope. I agree the guns are capable but most people don't have the specialized turrets or put much effort into their muzzleloader setup to be that competent. Are there guy's who can consistently hit 300+ yards with their setup? Absolutely but they're the exception.

 

[Sheltowee]

I completely disagree that 300 yards is within MOST shooter's ability with a scope less muzzleloader. Hell it's out of most muzzleloader hunter's I've met ability with a scope. I agree the guns are capable but most people don't have the specialized turrets or put much effort into their muzzleloader setup to be that competent. Are there guy's who can consistently hit 300+ yards with their setup? Absolutely but they're the exception.

You're also down around 600ft/lbs of energy and drifting nearly 3 feet in just a 10mph crosswind at 300 yards (calculated using a 300grain Thor Tipped at 1629fps). It can, in theory, be done but I wouldn't try it in live game.

 

[Bonasababy]

Agreed. But 250-300 is not a long shot. Many of us are shooting much further with muzzys using adjustable turrets and modern bullets. 300 yards is well within the ethical and practical limits of most rifles/shooters.

Some of you guys clearly are not aware of what modern muzzys will do. I’m not talking grandads 1:48 twist .50 Hawken with black powder and a patched round ball.

45 caliber, open sites...if you have the right rifle with newer bullets and have a place to sight in at distance and can estimate distance and the steep drop at distance And estimate any wind drift...theres still the matter of energy at distance being enough to insure a clean kill.

Not sure a Paramount with ELRs or similar is what most newbies would start with either.

IMO advice should be dispensed for the average, not the outlier.

 

[Hem]

Pretty obvious velocity is falling rapidly with my example of a 14" drop from 100 to 200 yds.

 

[Dan O]

One thing many forget about or a not aware of is the effects of wind. It's easy to get close on the drop at a given distance with a range finder and a ballistics chart. Even with the new bullets available the wind is a serious factor.

The last 12 years I have been shooting BPCR & BPRT with several of my Shiloh Sharps. Ranges are from 200 yards to 1000 yards. The bullet I use is a .458 535 grain Creedmoor bullet. Even at 200 yards the wind can and will play hell with this bullet. At 300 the effects are more pronounced and get greater as the distance increases. With out a spotter giving wind calls as they change the odds of a good hit go down. On steel target's a hit anywhere on the target is good the same is not acceptable on an animal.

OK rant over carry on.

 

[mevertsen]

I've hunted with muzzle loader for about 25 years.

I'm not particularly impressed with the new technology from a standpoint of the average vs outlier hunter as mentioned in this thread.

200 plus yards is a long shot with open sights.

Most people cant hit vitals at 300 with a scoped center fire rifle.

My suggestion would be to try shooting something, any open sight rifle at 200 yards, and see how you do.

These new LR muzzle loader are very cool, but its truly a niche market that is catering to the hunting magazines and influencers, getting everyone on board to buy something they don’t need and dont have the time, energy and range to practice with to become proficient at the claimed distances and get the full benefit of the tool.

My personal limit is 100 yards with open sights. Im not sure of everyone else's abilities.

 

[Diablo]

I’ve hunted with various muzzleloaders for almost 40 years. And almost exclusively with a muzzy for big game all over NA and Africa for 25 years or so. My personal (first shot) limit is usually 200-250 yards with open sights. Guys with better eyes and the right load/sights should have no problem (with practice) at 250-300. With the caveat that you can’t “spray and pray” like guys do with centerfire. You have to wait for the right shot.

Here’s an example of a modern load in a modern rifle - a verified drop chart for my open-sighted .45 WA G3 this season - 80 grW Bh209 and a Fury 225 gr bullet/HLBS. Wind drift and drop (even with a 100 yard zero) is manageable out to 300. And energy is more than adequate for deer (1445 ft/lb at 300).

 

[grizzly63]

I guess if you can shoot muzzies that far accurately and with enough energy, it is time to kill off any special muzzy seasons? Someone somewhere will use the chart you just printed on a public forum to probably lobby for such a change. Kudos to the game départements that keep muzzle loader primitive. No scopes, no smokeless, lead bullets. I have said it before but we headed to a one tag, any weapon season. Have a happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Sheltowee]

I’ve hunted with various muzzleloaders for almost 40 years. And almost exclusively with a muzzy for big game all over NA and Africa for 25 years or so. My personal (first shot) limit is usually 200-250 yards with open sights. Guys with better eyes and the right load/sights should have no problem (with practice) at 250-300. With the caveat that you can’t “spray and pray” like guys do with centerfire. You have to wait for the right shot.

Here’s an example of a modern load in a modern rifle - a verified drop chart for my open-sighted .45 WA G3 this season - 80 grW Bh209 and a Fury 225 gr bullet/HLBS. Wind drift and drop (even with a 100 yard zero) is manageable out to 300. And energy is more than adequate for deer (1445 ft/lb at 300).

View attachment 393917

You're shooting a high-end, semi-custom muzzy with a high-BC projectile that is illegal for elk or moose in most western states and have the benefit of 4 decades experience. I'm not questioning whether you can personally pull it off-- I'll take you at your word that you can-- but you are way down the bellcurve for most muzzleloader shooters.

 

[Diablo]

You're shooting a high-end, semi-custom muzzy with a high-BC projectile that is illegal for elk or moose in most western states and have the benefit of 4 decades experience. I'm not questioning whether you can personally pull it off-- I'll take you at your word that you can-- but you are way down the bellcurve for most muzzleloader shooters.

High end - yes. Semi custom - no. Legal or not - no one should be using that bullet for elk or moose anywhere. That’s a deer bullet - and a legal set up in a bunch of western states. Way down the bell curve - probably.

 

[Diablo]

Here’s a chart for full-bore .50: 120 grV Bh209 with a 300 gr Thor (175 yard zero). Very standard load. Still quite useful to 250+. Retains 1300 ft/lbs of energy at 250 yards.

 

[dsotm]

Modern muzzleloaders are not the flintlocks some of you think they are, 300 is not hard

 

[dsotm]

And knockdown power and other BS is fudd talk, it would be nice if people could stop spouting that nonsense.

 

[Gr8bawana]

There is a reason many state have changed muzzle loader seasons to primitive weapons only. Open sights, no scopes, black powder.
Because some people will always push the limits of a definition and what is legal.

 

[Nick87]

There is a reason many state have changed muzzle loader seasons to primitive weapons only. Open sights, no scopes, black powder.
Because some people will always push the limits of a definition and what is legal.

I was thinking about this the other day. We don't have a rifle season here only slug gun, muzzleloader amd straight walled rifle cartridge. Muzzleloader was designed for a primitive season but at this point it's probably the weapon with the most advantage other than a single shot. Love to see it go back to primitive along with 100 other things well never go back to.

 

[Sheltowee]

I was thinking about this the other day. We don't have a rifle season here only slug gun, muzzleloader amd straight walled rifle cartridge. Muzzleloader was designed for a primitive season but at this point it's probably the weapon with the most advantage other than a single shot. Love to see it go back to primitive along with 100 other things well never go back to.

Matchlock only or gtfo.

 

[Diablo]

There is a reason many state have changed muzzle loader seasons to primitive weapons only. Open sights, no scopes, black powder.
Because MOST people will always push the limits of a definition and what is legal.

There. Fixed it for you.

 

[Diablo]

There is a reason many state have changed muzzle loader seasons to primitive weapons only. Open sights, no scopes, black powder.
Because some people will always push the limits of a definition and what is legal.

“Many” is an exaggeration. Most western states are not very primitive in their muzzy regs.

Give me a list of the states that only allow “Open sights, no scopes, black powder.”

The regs are the regs - absolutely nothing wrong with using equipment that meets the regs.

And for the record….I use a muzzy for all my big game hunting - including for once-in-a-lifetime species during “any weapon” hunts.

 

[grizzly63]

Has anyone noticed the folks with the most knowledge have the least amount of post. I'm glad they are here because apparently a lot of us are just wandering around silly like.

 

[Hem]

Has anyone noticed the folks with the most knowledge have the least amount of post. I'm glad they are here because apparently a lot of us are just wandering around silly like.

Yep
Whats the point of creeping close enough to count the hairs on a deers eyelash.