several tags? last i checked my freezers weren't full after stuffing one cow and one deer in it. so, yeah, would hope to fill a few tags. you guys are exhausting. you knew that.
how much meat did you bring back from argentina?
New Mexico Privatization. Nuthin like it
- Thread starter abqbw
- Start date
several tags? last i checked my freezers weren't full after stuffing one cow and one deer in it. so, yeah, would hope to fill a few tags. you guys are exhausting. you knew that.
how much meat did you bring back from argentina?
seeth07
Well-known member
I think it would be a great change and requirement that all of these E Plus tags must be transferred and processed through NMF&G.
They get assigned to the ranch and if they are used on the ranch land only, any member on the ranch can validate the tag and no transfer required.
If the tag is unit wide, the transaction happens through NMF&G. The sale price is input during the transfer and the funds are processed through them where they can automatically collect a sales tax on the transaction. We would have an actual record of how many and at what prices these tags are actually costing. I think the numbers would surprise a lot of folks.
They get assigned to the ranch and if they are used on the ranch land only, any member on the ranch can validate the tag and no transfer required.
If the tag is unit wide, the transaction happens through NMF&G. The sale price is input during the transfer and the funds are processed through them where they can automatically collect a sales tax on the transaction. We would have an actual record of how many and at what prices these tags are actually costing. I think the numbers would surprise a lot of folks.
I don’t think it matters if privatization works better or not (it doesn’t).
If we wanted to increase the human population, instead of child tax credits, we could just forcefully impregnate all women of child bearing years. It would work better. Wouldn’t make it okay.
The public trust doctrine is the system that we live under because it’s an inherently equitable system that upholds American principles, values and morals.
China is outperforming the USA in some places too. That is largely due to the combination of them hybridizing business (capitalism) with totalitarian state control of industry. Should the USA do the same? Or should we stick to what is right/moral/decent (capitalism) instead of continuing to bastardize it?
seeth07
Well-known member
Ok, that makes sense - one elk is more than enough to fill up my freezer for an annual supply.
Zero meat returned home from Argentina. I don't hunt exclusively for the meat, its part of it but on this trip the only meat consumed was in camp. I'm guessing you are going to call me a bad person now because if you don't only hunt for meat this day in age and on this forum your evil.
This NM hunter believes that NM system works well. I've lived in and hunted lots of other States and I'd rather have the NM system where I have a chance of hunting every year without worrying with points. Landowners need to have a share of tags since they play a role in habitat. The "why don't we all share equally" attitude is great when you're not a landowner and have no dreams of becoming a landowner. I wonder how perspectives would change if the OP suddenly became a landowner with a large acreage in core NM elk habitat? I'd bet the tune would change quickly. NM is not perfect, but it's the best in my opinion. Which State draw system is considered superior to NM? Seems the thrust of this movement is to take tags away from landowners and give everything to public draw hunters, particularly resident hunters putting in for the draw. Maybe it could be spun as a capitalist vs a socialist view of things plain and simple.
So are elk such a wonderful thing for landowners that they do all sorts of habitat improvements on their land to increase numbers or are they a bothersome nuisance they landowners would kill on sight if it weren’t for the landowner tags they’re allowed to sell? I’m confused
which side is which in your mind?
no, we've been through this already.
i just personally see little value in not hunting for meat. going on big expensive trips, whether cross country or cross borders, for hunting is certainly of value to me - meat brought back or not - but in many cases is not practical to do every year and won't be for some time, if ever.
if the price to play is gonna come down to thousands and thousands, potentially tens of thousands of dollars per tag obtained from private parties who are profiting off them? well, like i said, i'm likely out. especially when half the motivation is filling the freezer.
i doubt we'll ever get to that model 100%, but you can't put that transferable tag cat back in the bag once it's out, and it usually only grows from there, at cost to public pool/draw tags, so i'll resist in perpetuity.
seeth07
Well-known member
It is actually pretty simple and sort of similar to the idea of the BLM and having a conservation value to the land. If the value of having elk around exceeds the loss of AU's on your ranch due to them being around then elk are great. If elk on the landscape provides nothing to the rancher, they will do their best to remove them as it's impacting their AU's.
Valley1320
Well-known member
Friend of mine has 13 acres in a northern unit has his tags listed as unit wide, his place would be a waste of time to hunt. Doesn't get a bull tag every year but when he does he sells it for 8k to a outfitter which then we all know the outfitter sells it for even higher price. (He keeps his cow tags for family)I don't agree with it and neither does he really I don't think but he does it anyways
he said it's not worth someone coming and hunting my 13 acres but he was like if they want to they can go for it! Side note this was 3 years ago that he was already getting 8k for a bull tagIs the blm getting tags they can sell to the highest bidder? I’d hope those ranchers that want elk removed are just giving tags away to anyone that asks and allowing lots of free public access
Go look at the current auction tag bids. 35k for the 16s and almost 20k for 34 or 36 with over a month of bidding left. These are just for any existing hunt code and you get a couple extra days to hunt. Glorified unit wide tags. If you think you are going to hunt for 5k-8k in any of these units you’ve found yourself a steal.
If the state wanted to run all eplus through public bid at least I’d be transparent and accounted for unlike now
seeth07
Well-known member
If you look around come late August all the way through October, you can find unit wide tags for bulls in good units for under 8k. I've almost jumped at ones in the 4k-6k range. People get nervous they aren't going to sell or people that bought the tag can't go and need to get rid of it
seeth07
Well-known member
That wasn't my point. My point was that the hot topic about the requirement for BLM to have a conservation value matters as Big Fin went through in detail in the YT weekly report. The private land already has this value as clearly shown by programs like this, BLM should as well. Not by means of giving them tags to sell but by means of determining its use and hopefully giving wildlife a better chance to use the land and in turn, the public able to enjoy it.
In the situation where the elk provide zero value to the landowner, you absolutely bet that they would be willing to let anyone come on and bang away to get rid of them. But in almost all situations across the country, there is an associated value so they exploiting that value as much as possible which means not allowing the public to use their land unless they pay.
As a resident that has an elk tag every year, for the grand total of $20 and no points needed, I'm here to tell you that you could have it better.
I'd guess the Idaho, Colorado and Wyoming hunters would all agree.
For the non-residents of the world, buying a tag for $$$ instead of drawing might seem appealing. I do find it rich that each of these guys will gladly take the tags they do draw and hunt them quite happily while shitting on the merits of those same systems.
New Mexico has to be the socialist one in this example- very oligarch-esc, because the state and the common hunter sure aren't getting the benefit, just the wealthy few.
For those in the know- When it's all said and done, the OP will have done vastly more for future generations of hunters and conservation than either of our 'Sconies combined, and it won't be close.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
*Insanity: Reincarnating woeful threads about NM hunting capitalism and expecting a different outcome. (*also Montana politics)
-Webster's
-Webster's
You should change your profile… it still says Montana, that could be confusing for some people.
seeth07
Well-known member
I was curious about this. NR perspective living in a state that doesn't issue reliable OTC elk tags to it's residents. From the freezer filling aspect, it is very easy to still keep killing a cow elk or two cheap across the west. NR can very easily get cow tags in numerous states with very high success rates for around $300-$700. Cost/#s of meat actually checks out pretty good there.
Add antlers to them elk and the game completely changes. To apply in every state offering NR elk tags, the non-refundable fee portion of those applications totals up to be $2403.42. Aside from CO where it is on the brink of changing, there is almost no guarantee that you can annually with that $2400 secure a bull tag that has over 25% harvest success rates. Due to states like CO, WY and MT having points with abundant bull elk tags, you can cycle between them with a reasonable bull elk tag every other year or so. Again assuming that CO NR hunts are about to all take 1-2 points to draw. Those fees are also likely to just continue to go up. NM is one state that is for sure overly due for a big price hike in the application cost as right now its less than half the cost of the average non-refundable application fee.
Financially, buying a 5-7k bull elk tag voucher in NM every 2-3 years is soon to be the better option. That is what makes me more upset then the fact that they exist. As a boy, elk hunting was a dream that lived inside my head only through articles written in outdoor life, field and stream and boys life. It seemed so far away and impossible at the time due to travel logistics and time but I knew that someday I'd make it. Now when I tell young kids I meet about elk hunting and that they should do it, their parents look at me and say they can't afford that type of hunting.
i'd personally trade away my rights to hunt bulls for good in exchange for a guaranteed top tier cow tag in 2-4 states every year in a heart beat. but that's a different topic.
so do we continue to trade away public/pool draw tags that start going for market price so that well to do non residents can live their dream at the expense of the beneficiaries of the trust who can't afford such things? we just can't discount that the majority of these tags end up in the hands of NRs for prices out of reach of not just the average beneficiary, but the average american in general.
assbackwards and antithetical to public trust doctrine management IMO.
