National Guard helicopter lands on private property; elk antlers stolen

[WildWill]

They trespassed for sure. Not good. But the theft part I don't know. Here's a question: A bull is walking down a fence line, one side state one side private. He shakes his head and tosses both antlers off and one lands on each side. A shed hunter walks down the same fence, picks up one shed and sees the shed on the private side but can reach through the fence and pull it out, is he stealing an antler? Who owns the antler on both sides before anyone ever touched it? Is there actually current laws in place that address this situation? I would have to say for sure that people have picked sheds through a fence since they have been known to fall off when the animal jumps a fence.

And they where stealing plain and simple. If you don't have permission to be on a piece of property you certainly don't have the right to take something from that property even if you can do so without stepping foot on said property.

 

[MTTW]

No way in hell I would prosecute them for that heinous crime if I was the landowner, but I grew up in a different time when sheds were worthless and no trespassing signs were all owned by assholes. They got in enough trouble already. I can still remember when I was young and cocky.

Fire away.

 

[schmalts]

And they where stealing plain and simple. If you don't have permission to be on a piece of property you certainly don't have the right to take something from that property even if you can do so without stepping foot on said property.

So when a elk drops a shed on state land it now becomes state property and if the shed drops on BLM land it is the property of the BLM? Just stirring the pot but these are interesting questions. The elk that dropped the shed is owned by whom? when does part of that elk become not the same ownership? Because when that elk is on private land it is not the property of the landowner unless it is farm raised. LOL
If you have permission to hunt elk on private land and shoot a bull, is the antlers property of the landowner until he says you can take them off his land? LOL just having fun but I wonder if there is really laws that settle this. One more, if part of state owned helicopter fell off and they landed on private land to get it is it stealing and trespassing? If corner crossing is legal as long as you do not touch his land why can't you pull a shed over the fence if you can do so without setting foot on private land? At what point does an elk shed become property of a landowner? If it is stuck in the fence and never touched the ground now who owns it? If a shed dropped on private land was picked up by a wolf and carried across the fence to public is it still the landowners shed?

 

[WildWill]

So when a elk drops a shed on state land it now becomes state property and if the shed drops on BLM land it is the property of the BLM? Just stirring the pot but these are interesting questions. The elk that dropped the shed is owned by whom? when does part of that elk become not the same ownership? Because when that elk is on private land it is not the property of the landowner unless it is farm raised. LOL
If you have permission to hunt elk on private land and shoot a bull, is the antlers property of the landowner until he says you can take them off his land? LOL just having fun but I wonder if there is really laws that settle this

Don't know or really care who theoretically owns it or if anyone does that's not the point. The point is if you take something of someones property without permission be it a antler, stick, or blade of grass it's stealing. And yes there are private property laws that back that.

 

[schmalts]

Don't know or really care who theoretically owns it or if anyone does that's not the point. The point is if you take something of someones property without permission be it a antler, stick, or blade of grass it's stealing.

Don't know or really care who theoretically owns it ? In your mind when does an elk become private property?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Just food for thought, and a question i dont know the answer to... But if cattle got out from a neighboring property, and one of them deceased on my property, would the remains be mine?

 

[schmalts]

Just food for thought, and a question i dont know the answer to... But if cattle got out from a neighboring property, and one of them deceased on my property, would the remains be mine?

exactly.

 

[El Jason]

Naturally shed antlers are typically not considered wildlife, as the animal itself would be and are not included in public trust doctrine considerations. Therefore the comparison of elk and deer vs the shed antler is invalid.

 

[TOGIE]

Just food for thought, and a question i dont know the answer to... But if cattle got out from a neighboring property, and one of them deceased on my property, would the remains be mine?

in open range states i'm guessing not. i dunno. but cattle and wildlife are under completely different doctrines of ownership, maybe similar in that ownership is not dependent on the land it stands on.

in any event, and in no offense, who really cares? the trespassing was illegal and the picking up of the sheds was illegal if only because of the trespass. but it is my understanding that sheds aren't wildlife anymore and aren't state property, so they are probably indeed at that point the property of the landowner.

 

[PRO MO]

i'm on board with banning the sale of antlers. with that being said, i'm heading out to the WMA opener tomorrow to hopefully find as many as i can carry (like one of those 40 pounders @Forkyfinder ). anyone got a chopper we can use to scout it out???

 

[Forkyfinder]

i'm on board with banning the sale of antlers. with that being said, i'm heading out to the WMA opener tomorrow to hopefully find as many as i can carry (like one of those 40 pounders @Forkyfinder ).

Good luck - thatd be gigantic.

Considering a big antler might weigh 20 lbs

 

[Forkyfinder]

in open range states i'm guessing not. i dunno. but cattle and wildlife are under completely different doctrines of ownership, maybe similar in that ownership is not dependent on the land it stands on.

in any event, and in no offense, who really cares? the trespassing was illegal and the picking up of the sheds was illegal if only because of the trespass. but it is my understanding that sheds aren't wildlife anymore and aren't state property, so they are probably indeed at that point the property of the landowner.

I dont disagree with your point.

I just was pointing out that public ownership and private ownership of animals is tiered and does not grant the same ownership rights. Right or wrong.

I think thats got some interesting implications for "ranching for wildlife" thats going on in some states.

 

[Wildabeest]

Agree with the points on sheds being different than deadheads or live wildlife. Not a lawyer, but I’d lean towards the “possession is 9/10ths of the law” doctrine. In other words, whoever possesses the shed thus owns it. If it’s on my property, then I possess it. If it’s on public, it is unpossessed and therefore not owned by anyone and free for the taking absent any restrictions on shed hunting there. To play @schmalts just for fun, if it’s in my dog’s mouth being retrieved, is that considered my possession?

 

[Carnage2011]

I didnt realize a good pair of elk sheds was worth 500 ish dollars (40 lbs x $12.5 per lb)

Itd still have taken sheds from at least 4 big bulls to be over 2k.

You ever find a set weighing 40lbs and you likely have the world record. That would be huge!

 

[WildWill]

Don't know or really care who theoretically owns it ? In your mind when does an elk become private property?

The moment it is legally tagged.

 

[WildWill]

Agree with the points on sheds being different than deadheads or live wildlife. Not a lawyer, but I’d lean towards the “possession is 9/10ths of the law” doctrine. In other words, whoever possesses the shed thus owns it. If it’s on my property, then I possess it. If it’s on public, it is unpossessed and therefore not owned by anyone and free for the taking absent any restrictions on shed hunting there. To play @schmalts just for fun, if it’s in my dog’s mouth being retrieved, is that considered my possession?

Nope it's his until you wrestle it away from that huge fluff ball.

 

[El Jason]

I dont disagree with your point.

I just was pointing out that public ownership and private ownership of animals is tiered and does not grant the same ownership rights. Right or wrong.

I think thats got some interesting implications for "ranching for wildlife" thats going on in some states.

A more appropriate analogy would be trespassing on someone’s land and taking an inanimate object, such as wood, that has any monetary value.

 

[WildWill]

Just food for thought, and a question i dont know the answer to... But if cattle got out from a neighboring property, and one of them deceased on my property, would the remains be mine?

I once came home to find 4 bison on my property. I'd have loved nothing more then to have shot all 4 and put them in my freezer. Unfortunately Livestock laws don't allow this the animal is still owned by the individual even if it’s trespassing. Now the owner of said animal could be held accountable for damages incurred by the animal in it's wandering. Now wildlife is completely different a publicly owned resource so I can see the argument that maybe the antler is still owned by the state. But you can't shoot a deer legally on someone else's property without permission just because it's a "public resource" so why would that be any different for a antler?

 

[benbanned]

i'm on board with banning the sale of antlers. with that being said, i'm heading out to the WMA opener tomorrow to hopefully find as many as i can carry (like one of those 40 pounders @Forkyfinder ). anyone got a chopper we can use to scout it out???

Good luck out there. You goin to blackfoot or sun river ?

 

[Birdbander]

I may be wrong but if I were one of the soldiers on that helicopter I'd be much more concerned with how much imagination my commanding officer had when applying UCMJ than the consequences from the civilian authorities. Just my opinion.