my hunt was a bust, burned by an outfitter.

schmalts

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Aug 22, 2002
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I am back. burned by a sweet talking outfitter to hunt on shitty private land. I actuallly left my 7 day hunt after 5 days to hunt the private land on my own even though i was still paying the outfitter . I tried to leave after the 3rd day but they would not reduce my hunt to a shorter cheaper hunt.
I got so pissed with the conflicting statements that the guides made compared to the outfitter on animal quality and other matters that i told my rookie 19 yr old guide to take me to a rental car place so i could go on my own. He didnt blame me one bit.
I know 3 days sounds like a fast give up but i did stay for 5. It was a spot and stalk property, so after not even seeing a legal 4 pt for 2 of the 5 and only spikes the rest, and even less cows that spikes it makes a spot and stalk hunt gloomy. I wanted and was assured by the outfitter i would see multiple 300 bulls to stalk. I never saw one over the low 200s. they were all on the property next door that had the feed and cover and water. This high desert chunk was very low on any sign. the guides slipped up and told me they didnt see any 300 bulls all season yet. that pissed me off too. I was lied to big time. It was one of those outfitters that gets your name from NM if you dont draw so i am sure some of you got his flyers about SE colorado.
I was told i was getting a special LOV tag in a high success unit, then the night before i flew out i was told i was getting a over the counter tag in a different unit. I checked the stats on this unit and it was half the kill success as the one i was told about.
After i left on the 5th day to hunt public land i met some nice guy wth a motor home that was hunting mostly by himself . He invited me to hunt and stay with him for the next 5 days and we had fun hunting and fishing. He had a friend along that was related to his wife somehow and was along just to fish and call elk for him. i was much happier even though i was still paying 600$ a day for that private desert shithole from the outfitter. I also saw more and bigger Elk. also found a carcass with big bears on it.
I met the coolest Game warden, he showed me a few spots and even helped us get the motor home un-stuck. I told him the name of the outfitter and he laughed! he said he never heard so many complaints about one guy and wondered how he keeps his permit to outfit.
There is more to the story.... when i get time. Moosie, sorry the lucky hat didnt work, i will still pay you for it anyway!!!!LOL, just give me a few days to settle down and get some checks made out.
Hey greenhorn, interested in guiding me next year?? All i ask is to see good animals, the rest is up to me. private E-mail me if you are interested now that you are a real guide, i would pay you more that any outfitter would. I dont need any hand holding, just a good hunting spot and a good caller to bring em in. I can eat shit for food and spike camp without complaints, all i want it a good spot scouted out, nothing else. I can hike like a 20 yr old too. Let me know .

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-01-2002 20:05: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
 

Moosie

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Greeny can't/won't guide for $$ He needs to go through an OUTFITTER, and the price on that is .. KACHING :D :D He doesn't like any posting that might make him look like he accepts any type of money from anybody... OR paintings (LONG story ;))

MAN O MAN.. Wish you would have had a better time, glad you gotthe hat in time, Spent more on the worth of the hat in just Shipping


Even the lucky hat won't work if you're in a shitty area
SORRY bout the crappy hunt, PLEASE post the name of the guide and We'll know for next time... GUYS should get praised a well as Criticized for their hunts....

ThANX for the STORy, sorry it ended up crappy :(
 

schmalts

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Aug 22, 2002
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WI
yes thanks again for getting the hat out moosie.
The guide wasnt the real problem, it was the outfitter. I am holding the name as of yet to see if i get any money back for the poor service and poor land he put me on. all i want is the days i didnt hunt with him re-imbursed.
Sorry,I didnt know if greeny would be interested but its always worth a try. By the way , how much would an outfitter cost in that neck of the woods?? i thought for 4k i would have got at least a glimps of a 300 bull in my binos from a far, was supposed to be a hunt of a lifetime for me........
 

Moosie

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Dec 9, 2000
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Boise, Idaho
Unfortunately, 4k is a good price... BUT, like you said, you should have been treated a bit better :confused: ...

I don't want to speak for Greeny (Which I already did) but I know that he NEVER accepts anything, He went out of his way to make sure I gave him NOTHING for him pointing me in a direction in Montanna, Sad thing about shooting big bulls.. is you get put under the scope by JEalous people that think the only way to get game like that is poach....He goes beyond being carefull.....

GOOD luck on getting your money back, I'm guessing Mr Outfitter "X" thinking that you didn't like him so you won't be back so no need to give you CRAP. I'm hoping for the best for ya.. but odds are.... :(
 

Ithaca 37

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Mar 4, 2001
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Home of the free, Land of the brave
Schmalts, I'm sorry to hear what happened to you but, unfortunately, it's a fairly common story. We can direct you to good outfitters in Idaho or even suggest places you can hunt on your own and have a good chance of getting an elk.
 

raybow 1

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Dec 19, 2000
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bellingham- washington
schmalts:
Sorry to hear that you had a hunt like that.
There are a lot of reputable guides out there. Talk to some of the guys on this forum and you'll come up with a winner for the next year!! Of course there are never any garauntees unless you go on one of the famous canned elk in a pen type. I hear what you are saying though, and that is, you expected to at the very least, see some of the type you were promised. You definately got jerked in that respect!! :mad:
 

csutton7

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that plain sucks the big ol donkey dong--I hope you get something, but like Moosie said--don't bank on it--he screwed you over and he will most likely think he did nothing wrong---bummed for ya---chris
 

schmalts

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Thanks guys, the biggest thing that pissed me off was the last minute changes, and lack of communication. they didnt call me until the nite before i left. I tried multiple e-mails, phone messages ,and enen talked with them on the phone asking to send me a rerciept for downpayment and a packing recommendation because i had no idea where i was sleeping. Their attitude was that "well we better get this hashed out befor eyou get down here since you didnt sign my contract"
My attitude was "listen Assshole, i tried to get a contract and packing list from you for a month now, thanks for calling the nite before i leave"
Next time i would talk to the outfitters board at the state level before booking a hunt, or just do it myself again but its hard when you live so far away from where the elk live. I really dont need a guide, just a good spot. I never had good luck getting info from state bioligists or wardens until i met this one in Co. this year.
Moosie i planned on doing what you said, if i dont get anything from him i will do my best to tarnish his rep on the web. also file a complaint with the state outfitters board. I called a lot of references but i am leary about them cause you dont know who they are. they could be rigged.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-02-2002 06:24: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
 

Roadtrip

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May 1, 2001
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The Beach, Elevation 12' @ low tide
Sorry to hear that you have had such bad luck on this hunt. I use outfitters to pack me into an area for a drop camp...then it is on our own. Seeing 300 class bulls is more or less a rarity...because we hunt wilderness in open units. That being said...we have had great success over the last two years and part of the reason is that I did my homework, and got several references. Not references supplied by the outfitter...but rather IOGA (Idaho outfitter and guides association) and the folks from the fish and game department. There are good folks out there...it just takes some time and legwork to find them.

Cheers
Roadtrip
 

Lv2hnt

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Jul 23, 2001
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Gilbert, Arizona
Touch experience! Whenever (if?) you draw an Arizona tag, there are guys here on Moosie's who can direct you to some good guides should you decide to go that route then ...

Lv2hnt
 

danr55

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Dec 18, 2000
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Mesa, AZ
Schmalts, It sounds like you have been defrauded. How about posting the name of the outfitter so that none of the rest of us make the same mistake? It's a shame that folks like that are allowed to continue to do business. A couple of guys I worked with got tangled up with an outfitter like that in New Mexico year before last. They were told that they were buying cancelled hunts for half price while they actually got tags on private land that no one who knew the land would buy. The guys that paid full price were hunting on the good land...

:cool:
 

roland from calif.

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Jul 16, 2001
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California
Schmalts,
sorry to hear about your bad luck. That being said, "been there and done that". Much like yourself I've been the victim of over blown expectations. After getting burned a few times I used the internet to get recommendations. For the most part the people that frequent these boards are extremely knowledgeable and can be a real asset in helping you find someone that has a good reputation. Good outfitters and guides are much harder to come by than most people would think. So the ones that screw over there hunters can expected to get flamed on the various BB's on the net. In regards to elk hunting guides I always look for the ones that pack into wilderness areas, and have a 60% or better success ratio for archery hunters. In my book if you pay, you should at least get an opportunity on a decent bull. It doesn't always work like that but it should be close. Having been through hunt's much like you recent adventure I have some very good insight and can also recommend a few outfitters that will do a better than average job for you.
 

A-con

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Dec 23, 2000
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Fresno,Ca.
Schmalts, really sorry to hear that story,
we all wish you would have had the great hunt you paid for.
Outfitters like that probably know that they are ripping you off, so don't expect any refunds.
I'm no expert, but my advice would be to book way in advance, only after getting recommendations and checking lots of referances as well as checking with the local wardens. Maby concider useing a well known booking agent.
4K should get you a pretty good hunt.
Wish you the best of luck next time.
If you get no satisfaction from this clown, post his name all over the internet, the only way to make him pay is to deny him furture buisness.
 

schmalts

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Aug 22, 2002
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WI
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by danr55:
Schmalts, It sounds like you have been defrauded. How about posting the name of the outfitter so that none of the rest of us make the same mistake? :cool:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I will private e-mail you the outfitter, until i talk to him to see if he will give any compensation i will hold off for a bit. I dont want him seeing this and using it as an excuse to tell me to screw off. But anyone that e-mails me will get the name off the board. If he does not offer compensation i will slam him anywhere and everywhere. He told me, and i reminded him that he said that if i didnt get a shot at a 300 bull next year i would come back for free. I dont want to go back there for free and wast time again. Maybe without the drought things could be different though. But all things aside i booked late and he knew about the drought .
On a different note, what unit should i apply for in AZ next year? anyone have a honey hole they would share with me, or work as a caller or scouter? Last year i applied for 4a, 4b,and 1
I apply for Utah in the book cliffs and manti units. I have 7 bonus points there 5 in AZ. I want to start applying for MT too next year to get better odds at drawing a good tag

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-02-2002 13:05: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
 

DeerKing

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Jan 30, 2002
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Schmalts
Sorry to hear about your bad luck in Colorado. There are a lot of shifty, underhand, untrustworthy guides service here as well as other states. This would have been a great year to have booked with a reputable, honest service although it seems like you did your homework and still got screwed. There were literally tons of elk on every hill it seemed this year and finding a 300 bull for you should not have been a problem if he knew what he was doing. If you ever decided you want to try Colorado again look me up. I'm not a guide but I try to help out honest, hardworking guys such as yourself and have had pretty good success. I hunt public land where very few people hunt in areas that take 0-1 points. I've shot many 300+ bulls in the last 10 years and maybe I could be of some assistance. I bagged a 331 bull with the muzz 2 weeks ago, saw a few others about this size and one considerably bigger. Sorry about your bad luck.


Moosie....gotta tell you about my deer hunt, whats your email, I can't find yours.
 

Boman

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Jan 24, 2002
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Colorado
Schmalts,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Do yourself a favor and look Deerking up. He is not kidding and I know first hand how well he knows the state. He is being modest. He has taken some huge bucks and bulls. And does so every year. He knows where they live. Greeny is the king on Montana, Deerking is the King of Colorado. He can help you..
Good Luck the rest of the year.
 
D

Deerslayer

Guest
The sad truth is, there are a lot of sorry assed outfitters out there, nothing more than licensed cheats. The good thing is they tend to get forced out of business soon enough.

What is that old saying....."it only takes one bad referral to tear down 10 good ones"......and it is the truth. The guy will pay for his lousy service soon enough,......that's how it goes....
 

schmalts

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Aug 22, 2002
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WI
thanks deerking, i will e-mail you. I need all the help i can get, its tough to find a good elk spot when you are so far away and have limited vacation time to pre-scout.
 
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