Mountain Goat Questions

[Jonesy125]

Well Im laying on the couch trying to rest up from the last two days of scouting for goats with my dad. Our first trip turned out pretty good, did close to 20 miles in some tough country, found some goats including 2 mature billy's and we got to try out our new 8 man kifaru in a nasty lightning/hail storm at 9200'. When I had my goat tag in 2013 I worked all summer so that I could take the entire hunting season off, that only allowed me to spend time really observing goats September and October. I have seen them this time of year while out hiking but never paid that much attention to how they acted. So anyway here are my questions. We saw 1 Mature Billy alone 3/4 way to the top of a mountain bedded, got up to feed before a storm came in and we never could find him the next morning, this was typical of what I observed while scouting for my tag. The other big billy was on top of a ridge with a nanny. I am 100% sure it was a great billy with an older nanny (we got within 100 yards and watched with a spotting scope) Is this normal? I would have expected to see a mature billy by himself? The next goats we seen were a long ways off and moving around a hillside out of view so I didnt get a good look at them but there were 4 goats and they were all the same size, no kids. Could these have been 4 young billy's? Would it be strange to see 4 nannys without any kids? My last question is most of the goats we looked at were covering a lot of ground and some basins we looked into had fresh tracks through the snow but we couldn't turn up any goats, do they travel around more this time of year vs. in the fall? Any feedback would be great, I think we found a good area assuming the goats will still be in some of these basins during season. I just want to understand summertime goat behavoir a little more. My dad ordered The beast the color of winter book, so im hoping that will explain goat behavior a little more as well.

 

[LopeHunter]

Goats will move when spooked or when seeking food. Is odd 4 nannies all without a kid. Is predation an issue in that unit? The biologist might have some input on that if not an obvious answer. I have seen billies and nannies mixed and apart in the same basin later in the year so does not seem odd to me if that is year around behavior.

 

[mountain monster]

Could have the one you thought was a nannie actually be a young Billie?
Scouting for goats is a blast! Have fun.
While scouting Billies in summer, we found them in same general area come September.
Good luck

 

[Jonesy125]

My initial thought was that it was a young billie but everything about it was telling me nanny. Long skinny horns and it had a long nose like a mature animal. I could be mistaken but I seen a few young billies on my hunt and there was nothing about this that didnt look like a nanny. This was the best billie I have seen I wont pretend that i can judge a nice goat vs. a record book goat but this was the longest and heaviest I have laid eyes on, you could only see maybe a 1/2" of hair between his bases when he was looking at us. And yes I will have fun scouting. I think this hunt will be a pleasure compared to the unit I hunted.

 

[ScottP]

My guess is that the amount of available habitat may have something to do with how the goats segregate, or don't. Also there is inherent differences in behavior between individuals. In the area we survey goats, the largest billys i've seen have been solo or in groups up to four. But they are usually only a ridge or a basin over from a big nanny/kid group - but the mountain range is pretty skinny and long. I've personally seen medium and the occasional decent sized billy mixed in the nanny groups in July. I know a guy that last year shot a tanker billy in September right in a big group of nanny/kids.

I don't think it's hard for these critters to jump a couple basins in short order, especially if they are disturbed. Seeing tracks in the snow and not turning up a goat is possible, given you can see all the bedding areas and camp out on it long enough to detect them should they be bedded up in a shady cliff spot.

As another example of strange goat behavior - in one of the units we survey bighorn, we spotted a billy and nanny together in a big chunk of cliff up at the head of a canyon (they're ~20miles through pretty heavy forest from the nearest occupied goat range). Last spring the nanny had two kids. This spring, all 4 are still hanging out together on the same rock face. The billy was not a drinker either.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Rmga has one of the best videos i've seen to help a hunter out. Good luck to you this season. Looking forward to seeing some photos.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I know the unit your Dad has a permit well. To answer your questions- my opinion.. unlikely it was an older billy with the nanny this time of year. The 4 goats were likely billies. They will likely move some from now until October but maybe not more than a couple miles - which can seem like a lot there. After mid October, all bets are off. Billiies might move a lot to find the nannies. I’ve spent a lot of time there in the summer and the groups of nannies and kids never had the big old goats hanging around.

See any bighorn rams? My daughters volleyball coach has a ram permit in the peaks.

My son also has a goat permit. Good luck - in my opinion your Dads goat permit is the best in the state of MT.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Sounds like you have some great prospects for your dad's hunt! My initial reaction to the two goats together would be that it would seem most likely to be two billies hanging together but you obviously know the characteristics of a nanny so it probably was. I think nannies and billies will mix sporatically through the year as circumstances bring them together but it seems unlikely they continue to spend much time together. It is fairly common for a couple of billies of the same age class to stay in the same general area although not right together.

My guess is the four goats together would be nannies and yearlings or nannies. Billies up to two years old are going to hang with the nannies till they go out on their own. It might be those are the nannies who didn't have a kid this spring. All conjecture on my part, but I doubt it would be four young billies together.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Having typed before I read Greenhorn's reply..... I would suggest you defer to his knowledge of the area over my general opinion....

 

[Jonesy125]

I know the unit your Dad has a permit well. To answer your questions- my opinion.. unlikely it was an older billy with the nanny this time of year. The 4 goats were likely billies. They will likely move some from now until October but maybe not more than a couple miles - which can seem like a lot there. After mid October, all bets are off. Billiies might move a lot to find the nannies. I’ve spent a lot of time there in the summer and the groups of nannies and kids never had the big old goats hanging around.

See any bighorn rams? My daughters volleyball coach has a ram permit in the peaks.

My son also has a goat permit. Good luck - in my opinion your Dads goat permit is the best in the state of MT.

We didn't see any sheep, actually we didn't see sign of much game at all besides goat and bear. I also think it seems unlikely to see an older billy with a nanny right now, but having such a close view of them I have a hard time arguing with my eyes. ( I wish I would have gotten some pictures of them) If the 4 we seen together were in fact billies, then chances are that every goat we saw minus the one in question were billies. I will keep you posted if we glass up any good rams. Good luck to your son as well, is his tag in this unit? And what makes you think this is the best tag in the state? Number of goats? Age class?

 

[Jonesy125]

My guess is that the amount of available habitat may have something to do with how the goats segregate, or don't. Also there is inherent differences in behavior between individuals. In the area we survey goats, the largest billys i've seen have been solo or in groups up to four. But they are usually only a ridge or a basin over from a big nanny/kid group - but the mountain range is pretty skinny and long. I've personally seen medium and the occasional decent sized billy mixed in the nanny groups in July. I know a guy that last year shot a tanker billy in September right in a big group of nanny/kids.

I don't think it's hard for these critters to jump a couple basins in short order, especially if they are disturbed. Seeing tracks in the snow and not turning up a goat is possible, given you can see all the bedding areas and camp out on it long enough to detect them should they be bedded up in a shady cliff spot.

As another example of strange goat behavior - in one of the units we survey bighorn, we spotted a billy and nanny together in a big chunk of cliff up at the head of a canyon (they're ~20miles through pretty heavy forest from the nearest occupied goat range). Last spring the nanny had two kids. This spring, all 4 are still hanging out together on the same rock face. The billy was not a drinker either.

Thanks for your input, we did not see any kid/nanny groups in the area. After looking at google earth of the basin that had tracks crossing the snow all over the place it is very likely that goats move into that basin and then up over the ridge to the backside, as the back also looked like great habitat and was west facing providing some more shade now that the temps are up. We will be in the unit as much as possible this summer learning different areas and hopefully learn more about what/why the goats do what they do.

 

[squirrel]

Watch the other end, especially as they get up out of a bed. The plumbing does not lie. And when you are watching a billie get close enough to use the scope to count growth rings, and there are generally at least two more below hair line on older goats. They are amazing critters, enjoy the show. In my experience it would be extremely rare to find a 4+ yr billie hanging with the women.

 

[The Hedgehog]

And what makes you think this is the best tag in the state? Number of goats? Age class?

As scenic as it gets, very few permits so you'll have the place to yourself, great trails and fewer grizzlies than most other local units. Decent goats, certainly some old ones but not known for real big ones. My son also has that permit. I had it in 2012 and have accompanied a few other goat hunters there. Good luck.

 

[The Hedgehog]

We did a 26 mile 3-day through hike. Saw maybe 70 goats. 6 good billies, 2 of them extra good. Due to my son’s schedule we’re likely to be done opening morning, or maybe Thanksgiving weekend (hope not). The scouting trips are sure fun.

 

[Jonesy125]

Looks like an awesome trip, we are headed back in Friday morning have to be back out Saturday night. Sounds like you found no shortage of goats to look at. Scouting trips are a lot of fun, no pressure and looks like you guys got some fishing in too, hard to beat a weekend like that.