MTLabrador
Well-known member
This is my new favorite activity.Yes, then race them.
Pack burro racing - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
More Fun with Feral Horses
- Thread starter RobertD
- Start date
Do you feel the same way about Oryx and Rainbow Trout?
tim629
Active member
this is a very much damned if you do damned if you don't situation that the US government has gotten themselves into.
i will start by saying:
I own horses and think a mustang would be a great trail mount
however this is like many political things where it's actually a small fraction of the population that cares one way or the other, a fraction of that fraction that has taken time to become even partially educated on the subject and the other fraction is the ones that politicians are listening to.
on many fb threads I see people advocating "they are wild let them be wild" generally doesn't go over well when one points out that if they are wild let the fish & game department have say of carrying capacity & tag allotments. then it turns to "they are feral leave them be" if they are feral they have no space in the landscape.
as with many political agendas i personally feel it is time for a round table discussion with a paid moderator, bring some of the groups for/against wild horses to the table, some ecologists and a few politicians too have a discussion about a problem everyone can agree on (overpopulation) and lets work on solutions that won't solve the problem but at least roll the ball in the right direction
i will start by saying:
I own horses and think a mustang would be a great trail mount
however this is like many political things where it's actually a small fraction of the population that cares one way or the other, a fraction of that fraction that has taken time to become even partially educated on the subject and the other fraction is the ones that politicians are listening to.
on many fb threads I see people advocating "they are wild let them be wild" generally doesn't go over well when one points out that if they are wild let the fish & game department have say of carrying capacity & tag allotments. then it turns to "they are feral leave them be" if they are feral they have no space in the landscape.
as with many political agendas i personally feel it is time for a round table discussion with a paid moderator, bring some of the groups for/against wild horses to the table, some ecologists and a few politicians too have a discussion about a problem everyone can agree on (overpopulation) and lets work on solutions that won't solve the problem but at least roll the ball in the right direction
Irrelevant
Well-known member
yes, and cats...
seeth07
Well-known member
And cattle...
bisblue
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2016
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- 232
The issue with sterilization is that you have to write a NEPA document that would highlight why you would do that. What I was told by a wild horse and burro specialist for a land management agency is that the new Trump policies prevented those documents from being over a certain page amount. In doing that they made it where they can't write one long enough that it would be legally defensible in court and therefore can't do it even though they have veterinary schools that want to volunteer the time to help with it....
Southern Elk
Well-known member
@windymtnman races pack burros.
dirtclod Az.
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Can't ride from Az. to Canada, it has been tried, they
couldn't get through the cities. And past the fences.
I have the newspaper article to prove it.
This was 10yrs. ago.
dirtclod Az.
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dirtclod Az.
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- Joined
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- Messages
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Welcome to Az., Now Go Home...
geetar
Well-known member
Agreed! I don’t prefer them over other species like elk, deer, bison ect but the ones I’ve seen in the wild were something special to see running away when we bumped into groups of them.
Exactly!Excellent points gentlemen !!
Robert,
this is an issue that different people and groups of people will have strong opinions about, including me. Several here will disagree with me and that is o.k., as may times in life I have learned from listening to opposing opinions, as long as the presenter of those opinions, does so politely. Sometimes 'we" humans need to just admit that we are only going to be able to agree that we disagree on a subject and leave it at that. This might be a good time to also say that I dont appreciate nasty pm, s and have discontinued reading pm,s from some posters. with all that said---
At this point and this is just one old woman opinion, they need to be rounded up and thinned out. not wiped out, but thinned out. Let as many as possible be "adopted", although and unfortunately more adoptions end up bad than they do good, but regardless, let that happen first and then a large majority of the older ones must be put down. We ( taxpayers ) are spending upward of 100 million a year to manage these herds and doing a poor job of it, again IMHO
What to do ? I can only tell you what we have done in Arizona and again IMHO, it is working and working without costing the American taxpayer a dime. The Salt River herds may not be native, but they have been there before we became a State, way before actually. As near as we can calculate around 1750-1800, which is even before my time
Rather than write it all down here, if any one is interested in what we do to manage that wild horse herd, look for the Salt River Wlld Horse Assoc and read about it on their web page, However, I will tell you this, first and foremost it is totally funded by private citizens, zero money from the Feds or State and yes the size of the herd is "maintained"
I love horses and have raised them, ridden them, used them ( ranch, hunting, rodeo ) and bred them. But I have also raised cattle, hogs, sheep, chickens, and turkeys---AND, ate them as well as used their by products. To me horse meat tastes very similar to both beef and venison, depending on the horse being eaten. Several countries around the world eat horse meat and serve it in restaurants.
I mention all the above to say, if it was up to me, I would round them up, separate all the older ones from the younger ones, let people adopt as many as they want, and slaughter the older ones, just like we do cattle, sheep, hogs, chickens--and if some are to "civilized" to eat horse meat, I bet there are some other families out there who are down on their luck that would enjoy having meat on the dinner table, whether it is--deer, cow, elk, sheep, moose, hog, caribou, or horse.
We should attempt to find sponsors for the young horses released back into the wild--i.e -- The Salt River Wild Horse herd---- granted the Govt may need to help these groups of horses and people financially from time to time, but the financial help needed would be a lot less than they are paying now. And obviously, the reduced wild horse herds would be eating less grass, therefore increasing the foliage for other wildlife .
I love the horse, I love riding them, I love seeing them in the wild, but the herds must be thinned and then controlled and if possible without taxpayers dollars.
Please remember this is just one old woman's opinion and with it and a quarter you will be able to buy absolutely nothing. I use to say my opinion and a nickel would buy you absolutely nothing, but you know inflation and all that------
There’s about 10 on this photo. Not visible in the photo is the immigration trail running N-S up the valley littered with clothes and garbage and backpacks as seen in the second picture.
Try to do something about either issue, which are the only two environmental issues that are plainly apparent to the casual observer in this part of the desert, and you’ll meet the wrath of a political ideology that bullshits us endlessly about caring about the environment and public lands.
Try to do something about either issue, which are the only two environmental issues that are plainly apparent to the casual observer in this part of the desert, and you’ll meet the wrath of a political ideology that bullshits us endlessly about caring about the environment and public lands.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
look at all that free gear! LOL
kwyeewyk
Well-known member
There's way more to it than that, one of my former bosses worked high in the ranks of the BLM wild horse and burrow program at one point and some of the stories she told would blow your mind. It's a completely political situation with a huge amount of external manipulation.
Contraception and sterilization sound like easy solutions but are extremely difficult to implement across large populations in reality, and require constant retreatment. Contraception is probably the best chance for an actual solution though. Contraception is preferred by some of the horse advocates, humane society, sterilization is inhumane to them and I suspect they will continue to be successful stopping those efforts.
Statement on wild horse surgical sterilization
BLM to Begin Roundup and Dangerous Surgical Sterilization of Wild Horses
BLM Ignores Science & Congress; Announces Plans to Begin Roundup & Dangerous Surgical Sterilization of Wild Horses in Utah
americanwildhorsecampaign.org
Interior Dept Officially Abandons Plan to Use Controversial Sterilization Surgeries on Wild Horses in Utah
(WASHINGTON, DC) June 25, 2021 — The U.S.Interior Department’s Bureau of Land Management (BLM) officially dropped its plans to conduct inhumane sterilization surgeries on wild mares in Utah, and the American Wild Horse Campaign (AWHC) is again declaring victory in its legal effort to block the...
americanwildhorsecampaign.org
I’m sure we can find your non-native species of choice. Pike, walleye, collared doves, pheasants, sika deer and honestly at this point in the west the whitetail deer is becoming an invasive species displacing mule deer. Definitely need some control but not a kill ‘em all mentality
This is a big part of the management problem. Too many soft spots. mtmuley
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