Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[MTTW]

Just got the email for the season setting the next two years. After skimming it, I actually think they are proposing 2 tags in areas of R6 in the name of CWD. Deer B license either sex

Fish And Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023 | Montana FWP

Fish and Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023

fwp.mt.gov

Yeah, sometimes I underestimate MTFWP.
Their goal must be to kill every deer and elk off the public land and let the landowners manage the game. They are making unprecedented progress.

 

[DFS]

I get that people are angry about mule deer in MT (I mean, we’re going on close to 60 pages now).

I’ve known Brett for years (since he was a biologist in R6) and he is smart, hard-working, and passionate about wildlife, including mule deer. You may disagree with him about how to get from point A to point B, but I’ve never heard him not acknowledge that mule deer numbers are down.

Out of all the things (some which actually is drivel) coming out of FWP, not sure why you would pick a synopsis that is common-flipping knowledge backed up by decades of research by mule deer/ungulate biologists to take issue with (unless reading research paper summaries and facts that are relevant to what’s going on with mule deer in MT and across the west is somehow wrong enough to make you feel “dumber for having looked at it”).

There’s plenty you, we, I can disagree with about what FWP does but it does seem ridiculous to me how easily every. little. thing. that they put out gets proverbially black-balled here.

And by all means, disagree away with your public servants; it’s part of their jobs, but the personal attacks and jabs against FWP bios and managers are unnecessary. They deal with enough other BS already.

The staff I have talked with are extremely nice people. Every single one of them. That being said they will lecture people with 30-40 plus years of experience on what they are seeing isn’t real. They will tell you, you should have kept a journal because nothing has changed according to their data. Animals migrated they didn’t die. Winters drought not enough shrubs. It’s excuse after excuse. The baseline got shifted the staff hasn’t even been there long enough to see the changes. It is one thing to say yes things are headed right down the shitter and there is nothing we can do about it. Instead they tell us everything is good and we don’t know wtf we are talking about. There needs to be some accountability because fwp has lost all trust with the public.

 

[DWarcher]

Good to see the proposal to make 410, 417 and 426 permit units for mule deer.

 

[MTGomer]

It’s an apathetic agency through and through. Today is October 24th. Call the bighorn sheep harvest quota status line (406) 444-1989 ext 3 for a sample of how little they give a F about even the most valuable species. It’s unbelievable. Not updated in 28 days

 

[YukonGold]

It’s an apathetic agency through and through. Today is October 24th. Call the bighorn sheep harvest quota status line (406) 444-1989 ext 3 for a sample of how little they give a F about even the most valuable species. It’s unbelievable. Not updated in 28 days

...has there been a quota sheep harvest in the last 28 days? why would it be updated if no one has harvested a sheep? I'm showing the last quota action was September 30 for HD303; takes 2 days to close a quota (why, is the thing that bothers me) so sheep was probably harvested 9/28. That's roughly 27-28 whole or part days.

 

[rogerthat]

...has there been a quota sheep harvest in the last 28 days? why would it be updated if no one has harvested a sheep? I'm showing the last quota action was September 30 for HD303; takes 2 days to close a quota (why, is the thing that bothers me) so sheep was probably harvested 9/28. That's roughly 27-28 whole or part days.

It says hd303 is pending closure on September 30 and 501 is closed. Now that it’s past October 24 they could go with hd303 and 501 are closed right?

 

[MTGomer]

...has there been a quota sheep harvest in the last 28 days? why would it be updated if no one has harvested a sheep? I'm showing the last quota action was September 30 for HD303; takes 2 days to close a quota (why, is the thing that bothers me) so sheep was probably harvested 9/28. That's roughly 27-28 whole or part days.

It says 303 is pending closure. it should just say that it’s closed because it is. It should also say that 1 ram has been reported in 500.
it should be consistent with the way it has always been because these things need to be clear and concise. hunters without cell service are relying on wives and others via inreach to provide them info from the hotline.
They also let 501 run a day longer than it should have. 36 hours passed from the time a 2nd ram was reported to when the quota was updated, which allowed for an additional hunting day.

They also plugged another sublegal ram this year.

Sorry, not trying to hijack a MD thread, it’s just extremely frustrating how flippant they are about something so special.

 

[rogerthat]

Re: possibility of an over limit and (if she was shot and died) waste of game; did you call a warden and report it?

I reported to the warden. Believe it or not my buddy identified the pickup from the photo and now we know who the people were! Got to love small town America.

 

[MTGomer]

It says hd303 is pending closure on September 30 and 501 is closed. Now that it’s past October 24 they could go with hd303 and 501 are closed right?

Correct it should say, verbatim,
“ unit 300 is closed. Unit 303 is closed. Unit 500. 1 ram has been reported. Unit 501 is closed. Unit 502. 0 Rams have been reported.”

That’s how it’s been forever. This year it’s a jumbled, mumbling bunch of nonsense.

 

[DFS]

It says 303 is pending closure. it should just say that it’s closed because it is. It should also say that 1 ram has been reported in 500.
it should be consistent with the way it has always been because these things need to be clear and concise. hunters without cell service are relying on wives and others via inreach to provide them info from the hotline.
They also let 501 run a day longer than it should have. 36 hours passed from the time a 2nd ram was reported to when the quota was updated, which allowed for an additional hunting day.

They also plugged another sublegal ram this year.

Sorry, not trying to hijack a MD thread, it’s just extremely frustrating how flippant they are about something so special.

You are aren’t hijacking anything that is extremely important info.

 

[rogerthat]

Correct it should say, verbatim,
“ unit 300 is closed. Unit 303 is closed. Unit 500. 1 ram has been reported. Unit 501 is closed. Unit 502. 0 Rams have been reported.”

That’s how it’s been forever. This year it’s a jumbled, mumbling bunch of nonsense.

So I should return the sat phone I just bought for that hunt to call the hotline and instead buy an inreach and teach my wife to check the quota online?

 

[TheTone]

They also plugged another sublegal ram this year.

Wth? Why are they doing this? Scared of a court battle of taking someone’s ram?

 

[antlerradar]

Yeah, sometimes I underestimate MTFWP.
Their goal must be to kill every deer and elk off the public land and let the landowners manage the game. They are making unprecedented progress.

I wish you were being sarcastic. Sadly you are predicting the future.

 

[antlerradar]

The baseline got shifted the staff hasn’t even been there long enough to see the changes.

Two years ago a long time ago bioligest from Broadus hunted with us. He was shocked by how badly the mule deer have slipped since he left in the 80's.

 

[Unlucky]

It cant be that complicated to make all mule deer a draw. But make people buy a tag every yr so they get there $$$. And make the quality better.

 

[DFS]

It cant be that complicated to make all mule deer a draw. But make people buy a tag every yr so they get there $$$. And make the quality better.

I don’t think we need to head to a draw just yet. Plenty of ways to keep opportunities. Eventually it is going to get there.

 

[Unlucky]

When is the last time u seen a honest 150 buck on public otc unit.

 

[antlerradar]

I get that people are angry about mule deer in MT (I mean, we’re going on close to 60 pages now).

I’ve known Brett for years (since he was a biologist in R6) and he is smart, hard-working, and passionate about wildlife, including mule deer. You may disagree with him about how to get from point A to point B, but I’ve never heard him not acknowledge that mule deer numbers are down.

Out of all the things (some which actually is drivel) coming out of FWP, not sure why you would pick a synopsis that is common-flipping knowledge backed up by decades of research by mule deer/ungulate biologists to take issue with (unless reading research paper summaries and facts that are relevant to what’s going on with mule deer in MT and across the west is somehow wrong enough to make you feel “dumber for having looked at it”).

There’s plenty you, we, I can disagree with about what FWP does but it does seem ridiculous to me how easily every. little. thing. that they put out gets proverbially black-balled here.

And by all means, disagree away with your public servants; it’s part of their jobs, but the personal attacks and jabs against FWP bios and managers are unnecessary. They deal with enough other BS already.

I have only met Brett a few times, not nearly enough to form an opinion, but so far I have come away feeling positive.
I also agree that what he posted is not drivel. The science on this is rock solid and good information to have. That being said nutrition is not what is causing the long term decline SE Montana is experiencing.

 

[antlerradar]

Just got the email for the season setting the next two years. After skimming it, I actually think they are proposing 2 tags in areas of R6 in the name of CWD. Deer B license either sex

Fish And Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023 | Montana FWP

Fish and Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023

fwp.mt.gov

This is a disaster. One of the top reasons that landowner restrict hunting on their property is they are not about to let their property become the S--t show that has evolved on public land. Giving out two tags is not going to help.

 

[antlerradar]

When is the last time u seen a honest 150 buck on public otc unit.

Looking at the deer thread, I am going to say just a few days ago at most.
That being said, 150 inch bucks on otc public are hard to find.