Montana General Season Structure Proposal 3.0

[Forkyfinder]

There will not be 8 weeks of the current season pressure. For most of the eight weeks deer hunter numbers will be cut in half and focused on one of the two species

Out of curiousity - is there much of a guess as far as how many will go with md or whitetail?

Also - when would you have to "select" a season?

 

[bigsky2]

Out of curiousity - is there much of a guess as far as how many will go with md or whitetail?

Also - when would you have to "select" a season?

We looked into that data but I can't remember the numbers. Maybe @sclancy27 can chime in. Residents were much closer to an even split while NR heavily favored MD. The theory is that by reducing the overlap of MD and elk seasons, and taking general MD hunting out of the rut, it would incentivize NR to focus more on whitetails. If you had the NR big game combo, it would be much more convenient to hunt whitetails and elk in the same trip.

 

[golfer]

We looked into that data but I can't remember the numbers. Maybe @sclancy27 can chime in. Residents were much closer to an even split while NR heavily favored MD. The theory is that by reducing the overlap of MD and elk seasons, and taking general MD hunting out of the rut, it would incentivize NR to focus more on whitetails. If you had the NR big game combo, it would be much more convenient to hunt whitetails and elk in the same trip.

I get why NR targeting mule deer more than R. I personally think nothing changes NR wise of them targeting more whitetail. They are coming here to hunt mule deer because most of them don’t have them at home to hunt.

 

[bigsky2]

I would agree that NR that are coming here with deer as their main priority are still going to focus on mule deer. There's going to be far less opportunistic harvest of mule deer by NR elk hunters when those seasons overlap a fraction of what they do currently. There's data from the unit you hunt that shows mule deer harvest increases with increased elk hunting pressure.

 

[Treeshark]

It’s crazy that deer/elk combo tags are even a thing for NRs.

 

[antlerradar]

I know id rather have my bucks stay on private all hunting season and rutting bucks dont stay put. Especially if only 10% of the tags represent a chance at a high paying client. Was it moga or fwp saying LE is a nonstarter? I cant remember.

The idea that we need to hunt during the rut so that DYI hunter would have a shot at bucks moving of if private land would be a valid point if bucks moved randomly during the rut and are distributed evenly across the map. Problem is they are not. Bucks are going to move to where the does are and during the fall most of the does are taking at vantage of the more productive river and creek bottoms. The good thing for hunters is that for 11 months of the year older bucks tend to prefer to live in the rougher less productive land that tends to be public land. The bad news is we have hunting season when the bucks are most likely to be looking for does on private land. There are bucks that move for private to public, but they are far outnumbered by the ones moving from public to private.

 

[cgasner1]

It’s crazy that deer/elk combo tags are even a thing for NRs.

I was pretty against them for awhile. But if we can get this split people can’t be in 2 places at once and most only have so much vacation. With any luck we sell 2 tags and only one is hunted to help with pressure on the other species.

 

[antlerradar]

Out of curiousity - is there much of a guess as far as how many will go with md or whitetail?

Also - when would you have to "select" a season?

I think the current split is roughly around 60/40. With being able to hunt whitetails during the rut and being able to hunt elk the entire second season I would expect a shift to more whitetails.

 

[sclancy27]

We looked into that data but I can't remember the numbers. Maybe @sclancy27 can chime in. Residents were much closer to an even split while NR heavily favored MD. The theory is that by reducing the overlap of MD and elk seasons, and taking general MD hunting out of the rut, it would incentivize NR to focus more on whitetails. If you had the NR big game combo, it would be much more convenient to hunt whitetails and elk in the same trip.

As far as NR vs R harvest ratios, NR over the last 20 yrs harvest at approximately 75%/25% MD bucks/ WT Bucks. Residents over the same time was 53%/47% MD Bucks/WT Bucks.

And yes, given the tag structure for NR (NR deer/elk combos the primary license) we believe that a change in season structure would cause NR to "double dip" and hunt WT more in conjunction with elk.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I think the current split is roughly around 60/40. With being able to hunt whitetails during the rut and being able to hunt elk the entire second season I would expect a shift to more whitetails.

Mostly curious about the selection?

I.e. if i lived in kalispell, and loved to hunt antelope in r7, would i have to pick md/wt - before antelope draws are released?

 

[Gerald Martin]

In general there’s still 8 weeks of rifle pressure. More than current structure. You won’t accomplish much by slinging lead for 8 weeks

We already have rifle hunting pressure from Sept.15 to the end of the season.

Granted, that rifle hunting is for bear, moose, sheep and goat. I know that I’m being somewhat facetious with that but my point is that intensity of pressure is as much a factor as total length of pressure.

What is known is that by separating deer hunters between season 1 and season 2 is that we’re distributing the same amount of hunters at different times across a longer period.
That should alleviate the intensity of pressure and felt competition on areas where hunter crowding is an issue.
What is unknown is exactly how that will affect how wildlife selects and stays on publicly accessible lands. My guess is that we’ll see a variable effect in different locations based on land ownership patterns, security cover and feed, and how much overall pressure an individual locale receives.
By and large, the majority of hunters have a certain amount of time to hunt each fall. In theory, having to divide that fixed amount of time between species that have limited concurrent seasons or separate seasons should lower overall pressure.

No doubt there are going to be some people who will use divided seasons to focus on each animal individually and hunt more.
However, looking at it as a whole I believe that the overall effect on pressure and harvest with a split season structure will be a net reduction in pressure and mule deer harvest from the current season structure.

 

[antlerradar]

Mostly curious about the selection?

I.e. if i lived in kalispell, and loved to hunt antelope in r7, would i have to pick md/wt - before antelope draws are released?

I would hold off on selecting as long as possible. That would bring up an interesting decision for the region one hunter. Do a comb hunt in seven but sacrifice the best hunting close to home or plan on hunting antelope and whitetails. Currently you can do both.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I would hold off on selecting as long as possible. That would bring up an interesting decision for the region one hunter. Do a comb hunt in seven but sacrifice the best hunting close to home or plan on hunting antelope and whitetails. Currently you can do both.

Sort of - id say that the best time to rifle hunt antelope came and went when gen rifle opens now.

Id prefer forcing selection before any draws are announced to reduce incidental harvest.

 

[sclancy27]

Sort of - id say that the best time to rifle hunt antelope came and went when gen rifle opens now.

Id prefer forcing selection before any draws are announced to reduce incidental harvest.

I'd prefer selection as early as possible. I think making people make choices is a key to maintaining opportunity

 

[Forkyfinder]

I'd prefer selection as early as possible. I think making people make choices is a key to maintaining opportunity

Dont know how you deal with that if its otc though.

If i buy one october first - am i not allowed to hunt MD?

 

[sclancy27]

Dont know how you deal with that if its otc though.

You deal with that by making people make the choice for which season early, not after all the draws come out or a day before the season starts.

If i buy one october first - am i not allowed to hunt MD?

You're gonna have to clarify this, it's been a long morning for me already and I am short on understanding.

 

[Forkyfinder]

You deal with that by making people make the choice for which season early, not after all the draws come out or a day before the season starts.

You're gonna have to clarify this, it's been a long morning for me already and I am short on understanding.

What i mean is - there are resident hunters who dont/buy apply and get their tags otc in the fall if they feel like going.

If they purchase in season - would they be able to make the choice right when they buy? Or would mule deer and/or whitetail otc tags not be around anymore?

Same theoretical resident hunter could wait until draw results come out (for speed goat) and then waltz into walmart and buy a tag (and at worst be forced to choose at the time they bought).

 

[sclancy27]

What i mean is - there are resident hunters who dont/buy apply and get their tags otc in the fall if they feel like going.

If they purchase in season - would they be able to make the choice right when they buy? Or would mule deer and/or whitetail otc tags not be around anymore?

Same theoretical resident hunter could wait until draw results come out (for speed goat) and then waltz into walmart and buy a tag (and at worst be forced to choose at the time they bought).

Choose at time of purchase. So, if you put in for a deer draw tag, you would choose before April (since we have to have a valid license to draw).

Those who buy right before, or during, the season would be able to choose either season. If they choose season 1 on November 10, I guess they get a Darwin award along with not hunting. Ideally the licensing system wouldn't allow purchase for season 1 after season 1 has closed but leave me out of that.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Choose at time of purchase. So, if you put in for a deer draw tag, you would choose before April (since we have to have a valid license to draw).

Those who buy right before, or during, the season would be able to choose either season. If they choose season 1 on November 10, I guess they get a Darwin award along with not hunting. Ideally the licensing system wouldn't allow purchase for season 1 after season 1 has closed but leave me out of that.

Right. So there is no forcing a choice early, unless im missing something. Unfortunately.

 

[sclancy27]

Right. So there is no forcing a choice early, unless im missing something. Unfortunately.

Right, that was more a general "force them to make choices".