Montana FWP makes seismic shift in elk permits

[Nameless Range]

One thing we should keep an eye on for accuracy in the next two years, is how "devastated" so many eastern Montana communities will be by these limited permits.

Mac Minard said so.

 

[MTGomer]

Surely you understand that the pressure and hunting days must increase on the permit units. Everyone who gets a permit must hunt there, no no-shows, no hunting for a day or two, all permit holders fully committed.

I get what you were saying, but not everybody cares as much or tries as hard as you do. I have been guiding desert sheep hunters in Arizona on once in a lifetime permits for the last couple years, and in doing so pay attention to what other tag holders, especially in units we are guiding in, are up to. I can assure you, not everybody is fully committed, or even gives a shit, when they draw tag, no matter how good it is.

If you’re not content being stuck in a unit, don’t apply for it. Some people will follow this logic, and there will be better odds for the people that do want to commit to hunting that unit.
When/if Montana gets to a point where they manage each unit to real objectives, they will be able to issue the proper amount of permits, and anticipate the harvest rate of those permits. They have a long ways to go to get there, but this is a good first step.

 

[8andcounting]

One thing we should keep an eye on for accuracy in the next two years, is how "devastated" so many eastern Montana communities will be by these limited permits.

Mac Minard said so.

Just sell more mule deer b tags that will make up for the loss

 

[406LIFE]

Ravalli Republic reported in their article this morning that is supposed to be done in 2023.

They didn’t quote a source for this.

Hank has said this several times, yesterday being the latest. However, I haven't seen a timeline or process.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

While I am happy about some of the wins, I can't quite shake the disappointment I have for some expansion of cow opportunities in the units and region I am more familiar with. Every region is different but in these places, in my opinion, cows don't need to be shot on public. It's just disheartening to see so few elk already on public and then see cow opportunities still getting pushed. One of the biologists attempted to end cow harvests on public in some areas but sadly didn't get those changes to happen.

I really hope important data can be collected about these new 3 week mule deer seasons. It will be interesting to see what kind of changes will happen and I hope data can help show the potential improvements. For now I'm gonna try to hold on to the positives

 

[Unlucky]

Would someone post the new regs. Remember knowledge is the publics friend. Lots of misinformation out there. Confusing.

 

[rogerthat]

I get what you were saying, but not everybody cares as much or tries as hard as you do. I have been guiding desert sheep hunters in Arizona on once in a lifetime permits for the last couple years, and in doing so pay attention to what other tag holders, especially in units we are guiding in, are up to. I can assure you, not everybody is fully committed, or even gives a shit, when they draw tag, no matter how good it is.

If you’re not content being stuck in a unit, don’t apply for it. Some people will follow this logic, and there will be better odds for the people that do want to commit to hunting that unit.
When/if Montana gets to a point where they manage each unit to real objectives, they will be able to issue the proper amount of permits, and anticipate the harvest rate of those permits. They have a long ways to go to get there, but this is a good first step.

Yeah I’m not buying the more pressure because I have to hunt that unit. I dedicate 2 weeks to archery elk. Always have. A lot of people are like me with a job. Now I have to decide where I want to spend my 2 weeks - travel or stay close to home. If I travel for elk I may have to hunt deer on the weekends. If I want to go weekends too for elk than that changes my decision process and I might stay close to home but I am still only able to hunt when I have time off.

 

[MTLabrador]

One thing we should keep an eye on for accuracy in the next two years, is how "devastated" so many eastern Montana communities will be by these limited permits.

Mac Minard said so.

I especially liked the comments from the outfitter in 417 that said having only 250ish either sex rifle permits being issued would put him out of business. Is he out of business now with 225 either sex rifle permits being issued?

 

[rogerthat]

I especially liked the comments from the outfitter in 417 that said having only 250ish either sex rifle permits being issued would put him out of business. Is he out of business now with 225 either sex rifle permits being issued?

Yeah no crap. Maybe he needs to talk to someone about something called diversification.

 

[Unlucky]

Missing the point. Everyone is it in for themselves. Very simple. Do what is best for the elk deer moose ect.

U put in for a permit and draw hunt that God dam unit. Too many selfish people. Public and private. Seems both sides won who have access.

Meanwhile public lands are overhunted.

Why shoulder seasons fwp law now. Cant allow access in general season to kill elk because u outfitted it to bull hunters.

Idk prob help if they made it public what they going to do or are they still figuring it out

 

[seeth07]

Missing the point. Everyone is it in for themselves. Very simple. Do what is best for the elk deer moose ect

If only we could get there in every single unit, every single state...

 

[Unlucky]

Too easy fwp has bios that are paid and are trusted to do there job. Only speaking for MT but get real. How hard is it manage with out the political areana.

 

[300stw]

One thing we should keep an eye on for accuracy in the next two years, is how "devastated" so many eastern Montana communities will be by these limited permits.

Mac Minard said so.

ill be watchin for real estate to plummet to help out my portfolio, thats for sure

 

[300stw]

is mandatory accurate harvest reporting included

 

[Ben Lamb]

While I am happy about some of the wins, I can't quite shake the disappointment I have for some expansion of cow opportunities in the units and region I am more familiar with. Every region is different but in these places, in my opinion, cows don't need to be shot on public. It's just disheartening to see so few elk already on public and then see cow opportunities still getting pushed. One of the biologists attempted to end cow harvests on public in some areas but sadly didn't get those changes to happen.

I really hope important data can be collected about these new 3 week mule deer seasons. It will be interesting to see what kind of changes will happen and I hope data can help show the potential improvements. For now I'm gonna try to hold on to the positives

I'm sure that more disappointment will come along once the master list is finalized and we can do in-depth analysis. What passed yesterday wasn't perfect, and I don't think the commission feels that way either based on comments they made relative to increased opportunities for residents and non-residents (regardless of how we feel about that) but I do think that yesterday was far more than a win for a few limited entry districts.

What happened yesterday was that the people of Montana pushed back against well-heeled private interests who were confident in their ownership of the director & the commission and in that advocacy, there was opportunity created to find some solutions in the next two years, relative to season structure, and for people to put down the knives and work together for the betterment of all.

Outfitters & Landowners have legitimate issues that need to be dealt with fairly and honestly by us, and at the same time hunters deserve honest and open dialog that moves us towards a more moderate and long-lasting solution. The commission's actions yesterday set the tone for that discussion, and honestly, they gave hunters the upper hand in dealing with this. As we saw from Mac's testimony, and UPOM's speech, nobody is happy with this, and the folks we typically fight with feel like they got punched in the nuts. Dusty Crary, the president of MOGA is an old friend of mine and one of the finest public land conservationists I know. He helped lead the charge for the Rocky Mountain Front Heritage Act a decade ago and if he's willing to make that effort as he said at the podium, we need to be there to work with him.

That doesn't mean caving on cornerstone beliefs and issues, but it does mean approaching this issue with an open mind and an open heart.

There is a lot of work to do, and this season setting process is just the beginning of a very long road. Celebrate changing the narrative, more so than celebrating changing season structure.

 

[Unlucky]

Who gives a shit about mac minard. Stop with the political shit. We know he a dink. Nobody respects him or cares. People want and expect a good change. Everybody is reasonable and willing to change. Let the bios speak freely and the public. Like just do what is right by the wildlife and Nobody can stop it.

 

[seeth07]

I'm just curious and honestly don't really want to watch the meeting to find out myself so....

can someone provide a rough breakdown of the in person representation between landowners and public land advocates? how about overall recorded comments?

I would just be interested to know how strong the public land voices were in comparison to the landowners in this situation.

 

[Unlucky]

So we know they won, the war. We know the private and the willing rich can buy FWP and a governor. We were warned about this. What we expect. So easy solution,keep track how people voted and kick there ass back to new jersey.

 

[Unlucky]

Proud of everyone fighting for public lands and wildlife. So many good men and women. But we up against billionaires not millionaires

 

[Ben Lamb]

I'm just curious and honestly don't really want to watch the meeting to find out myself so....

can someone provide a rough breakdown of the in person representation between landowners and public land advocates? how about overall recorded comments?

I would just be interested to know how strong the public land voices were in comparison to the landowners in this situation.

it was primarily hunters who showed up. There were some outfitters & landowners, but it was pretty telling that the MT Stockgrowers, Farm Bureau, Farmer's Union, etc weren't there.

UPOM & MOGA were there on the other side of the equation, with some folks in-between. Overwhelmingly hunters, however. The next meeting/event may be flipped. Who knows.