Bambistew
Well-known member
why don't one of you two ninnies call someone at the MT F&G and find out for sure. 
Montana Bill Set's Wolf Tag Cost
- Thread starter BigHornRam
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Carbonarcher,
I didnt argue around any facts. I believe the register...but the register has nothing to do with the quota set in the STATE OF MONTANA bear hunting regulations.
Also, I didnt say you were a Washington or California transplant to Montana...you just cry like one.
As to Montana roots...I dont think anyone cares...but my grandfather was born in Montana in 1916 in Ronan...so 3rd generation, no big deal though...doesnt change the facts of grizzly hunting in MT. I'm just pretty happy I was born and grew up in a State where "most" of the people there werent a bunch of sissies. The type of people that wouldnt post about how they were "attacked" by someone telling them they were full of crap.
Matter of fact...you are about the most "sensitive" native montanan I've ever heard of. Must of lived a sheltered life in the Yaak...along with the other folks that didnt make the cut for the tryouts of "Deliverance"....
I didnt argue around any facts. I believe the register...but the register has nothing to do with the quota set in the STATE OF MONTANA bear hunting regulations.
Also, I didnt say you were a Washington or California transplant to Montana...you just cry like one.
As to Montana roots...I dont think anyone cares...but my grandfather was born in Montana in 1916 in Ronan...so 3rd generation, no big deal though...doesnt change the facts of grizzly hunting in MT. I'm just pretty happy I was born and grew up in a State where "most" of the people there werent a bunch of sissies. The type of people that wouldnt post about how they were "attacked" by someone telling them they were full of crap.
Matter of fact...you are about the most "sensitive" native montanan I've ever heard of. Must of lived a sheltered life in the Yaak...along with the other folks that didnt make the cut for the tryouts of "Deliverance"....
carbonarcher
New member
Alright Buzz, you win. There, that better for you? Call me what you wish, thats your perogative, believe what you wish about the grizzly season, it's all you man. Believe what you wish about me. You mean nothing to me or to most of the people that exist in this world and probably to most of the people in your world. Good for you, you have once again continued to argue things you can't prove, and now I give. It's all you man.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Carbonarcher (and Bambistew),
I took Bambistews advice...and just got off the phone with Jamie Jonkel of the MTFWP...he's the furbearer, bear biologist for Region 2.
I asked him if the grizzly tag was OTC for the fall hunt...he said absolutely and that the trophy fee was $50 in the 80's. Fall only season.
He also filled in some details on the spring season. It was a management hunt more than a trophy hunt. He said they tried the season to help out a few landowners that had legitimate grizzly bear concerns/problems. The theory was to provide hunting opportunity, plus elimante griz conflicts on the front.
He didnt know about the quotas.
I took Bambistews advice...and just got off the phone with Jamie Jonkel of the MTFWP...he's the furbearer, bear biologist for Region 2.
I asked him if the grizzly tag was OTC for the fall hunt...he said absolutely and that the trophy fee was $50 in the 80's. Fall only season.
He also filled in some details on the spring season. It was a management hunt more than a trophy hunt. He said they tried the season to help out a few landowners that had legitimate grizzly bear concerns/problems. The theory was to provide hunting opportunity, plus elimante griz conflicts on the front.
He didnt know about the quotas.
beardown
New member
Stop the maddness. MT I seriously doubt will have a quota system for wolves or grizz especially considering you now have to DRAW LION tags as of this year! The quota system on kittys was a hot debate, nobody wanted to see it go to a draw but the problem was exactly the problem that quota systems always have, outfitters telling dumb asses from out of state to shoot the first thing they tree. The average lion suddenly was only three years old. I took one last year that was exactly that and thanks to the quota system what choice did I have but to either eat tag soup or take an average lion the day before the quota was filled. If you let it be a quota system than every outfitter will be hiring tons of guys to find the first thing they can for one reason and one only MONEY FROM OUT OF STATERS. No doubt that MTFWP is already counting the cash this could bring in and they might do it just for that reason CASH! I think as a resident that I would prefer to draw a tag especially on griz and certantily on kittys so I could hunt instead of racing to get somethin before the unit closes.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Beardown,
Theres an easy fix to the problem, probably too simple for the whiniest group of hunters (cat hunters) in the state of MT to figure out.
Keep the quota system in place, but derive it by doing the following (for argument lets say theres a quota of 50 for say region 2):
1. Allow 10% (current regulation) of the cat quota to be filled during general bow/rifle season. If the quota isnt reached add it back into the cat hunting season. So for my example it would be up to 5 total.
2. In each unit (or group of units) also issue through a lottery draw a number of "trophy" tags good for the entire cat hunting season. Lets say another 5 toward the quota. (I think this was tried in NW Montana).
3. With the remaining 40 of the quota only 50% (or 20) could be filled by NR hunters. The remaining 50% (or 20) would only be valid for resident hunters.
I think with a system like that...or something similar...a person could keep the cat hunting under a quota system and still provide maximum opportunity for everyone...including true trophy hunters who are looking for a longer season and a better shot at a mature animal. It would also allow the resident hunters their own seperate sub-quota giving them a longer season and keeping the outfitters from filling the quotas with NR hunters blasting any legal cat. Then it would be on the DIY houndsmen and the residents to be careful of filling their share of the quota with "any legal cat".
Real simple...and I bet something like that wasnt brought up once in any fish and game meeting. I'm sure it was hot as the most vocal cat hunters are also usually outfitters and/or guides.
Theres an easy fix to the problem, probably too simple for the whiniest group of hunters (cat hunters) in the state of MT to figure out.
Keep the quota system in place, but derive it by doing the following (for argument lets say theres a quota of 50 for say region 2):
1. Allow 10% (current regulation) of the cat quota to be filled during general bow/rifle season. If the quota isnt reached add it back into the cat hunting season. So for my example it would be up to 5 total.
2. In each unit (or group of units) also issue through a lottery draw a number of "trophy" tags good for the entire cat hunting season. Lets say another 5 toward the quota. (I think this was tried in NW Montana).
3. With the remaining 40 of the quota only 50% (or 20) could be filled by NR hunters. The remaining 50% (or 20) would only be valid for resident hunters.
I think with a system like that...or something similar...a person could keep the cat hunting under a quota system and still provide maximum opportunity for everyone...including true trophy hunters who are looking for a longer season and a better shot at a mature animal. It would also allow the resident hunters their own seperate sub-quota giving them a longer season and keeping the outfitters from filling the quotas with NR hunters blasting any legal cat. Then it would be on the DIY houndsmen and the residents to be careful of filling their share of the quota with "any legal cat".
Real simple...and I bet something like that wasnt brought up once in any fish and game meeting. I'm sure it was hot as the most vocal cat hunters are also usually outfitters and/or guides.
beardown
New member
Buzz: You acctually make a good point. I agree on the general bow and rifle season. The fact is I have had three different chances to shoot a kitty twice during archery and once during rifle, last year matter of fact. It deffinetly is bull chit that you bascically can only hunt them with hounds.
Cathunt MT
New member
What would be so bad about doing the way they do Moose, Sheep and Goat?
I think you would find that we could keep the # that the gov. wants and still take older animals. I don't like the Quota system. I think the state would make more money this way to. IMO
I think you would find that we could keep the # that the gov. wants and still take older animals. I don't like the Quota system. I think the state would make more money this way to. IMO
BuzzH
Well-known member
cathunt,
I dont care either way...I have just slightly more than zero desire to ever kill another lion.
However, I wouldnt be real excited about having to draw a cat tag. Anytime anything goes to draw you wont be hunting every year. It would seem to me that a houndsman who takes care of hounds all year, picks up dog shit all year, would also like to be able to use his hounds. I guess you could still run during the chase only season...but it sure would be nice to have the option to kill a real exceptional animal if you treed one.
Plus, even if you have to draw, I'd bet the MTFWP will still set similar quotas and in the end the same number of cats will likely die. Ultimately changing nothing.
I think there are other ways to accomplish raising the age structure of cats that havent been considered.
How about limiting the number of outfitters and the number of cats each outfitter can legally take?
How about keeping roads closed to motorized travel during cat season? No use of snowmobiles? I bet that would make things a bit more difficult and keep the quotas from being reached in 14 days....
I dont believe that hunting should become a sport where the hunters who are lucky in the draw are the ones that get to hunt the most and most successful...I'd rather it be the hunters who try the hardest, put in the effort, put in the time...are the ones that get to hunt the most and are the most successful.
Personally, I'd rather make cat hunting more challenging and difficult...keep the people that dont really want to hunt cats all that bad out of the sport.
I dont care either way...I have just slightly more than zero desire to ever kill another lion.
However, I wouldnt be real excited about having to draw a cat tag. Anytime anything goes to draw you wont be hunting every year. It would seem to me that a houndsman who takes care of hounds all year, picks up dog shit all year, would also like to be able to use his hounds. I guess you could still run during the chase only season...but it sure would be nice to have the option to kill a real exceptional animal if you treed one.
Plus, even if you have to draw, I'd bet the MTFWP will still set similar quotas and in the end the same number of cats will likely die. Ultimately changing nothing.
I think there are other ways to accomplish raising the age structure of cats that havent been considered.
How about limiting the number of outfitters and the number of cats each outfitter can legally take?
How about keeping roads closed to motorized travel during cat season? No use of snowmobiles? I bet that would make things a bit more difficult and keep the quotas from being reached in 14 days....
I dont believe that hunting should become a sport where the hunters who are lucky in the draw are the ones that get to hunt the most and most successful...I'd rather it be the hunters who try the hardest, put in the effort, put in the time...are the ones that get to hunt the most and are the most successful.
Personally, I'd rather make cat hunting more challenging and difficult...keep the people that dont really want to hunt cats all that bad out of the sport.
Cathunt MT
New member
Buzz, I was talking more on the lines of the wolf and griz hunts
BuzzH
Well-known member
I still think a quota on wolves and griz.
Point Creep
Well-known member
Quota and higher priced licenses/trophy fees.
Bambistew
Well-known member
I only know a few lion outfitters, but neither of them that I'm aware of have shot a lion just to shoot one. They both offer 'free' hunts if the hunter doesn't kill a mature lion. They have been outfitting for a long time though.
I don't know how many resident hunters/DIY hunters I've seen with baby kitty's laying across thier snow machine, or the 'long' tail draped over the tailgate. Not saying all outfitters are killing mature animals, but I dont' think its fair to say its thier fault that the age has dropped. My good buddy is a lion guide, they've killed over a 100 lions in the last 25+ years, average weight is usually in the 130-140 pound range, all big mature toms. I think the smallest cat they killed this year was a 130 pounder, biggest was in the 170 range.
I'd be intersted to know the percentage of female lions killed by NR 'dudes' compared to resident DIY hunters, I'll be its 1 to 4 or more. As a mater of fact I can only think of a handful of DIY hunters that I know that have killed mature cats, and can think of probalby 30 or more that shot dinks over the last 5-6 years. IMO the 'tag soup' mentality goes both ways with the majority of the guys that kill any cat being resident DIY guys. I can't say as I blame them after cleaning up dog chit all year long, but... If you're in the sport and settle for killing dinks, why not take up coon hunting.
I think the wolf should be on quota lions include a healthy trophy fee along with it. I think the grizzly's should be on draw basis, tag prices same as the big three. But make the season archery only, that way they could give out 20 times as many tags.
I don't know how many resident hunters/DIY hunters I've seen with baby kitty's laying across thier snow machine, or the 'long' tail draped over the tailgate. Not saying all outfitters are killing mature animals, but I dont' think its fair to say its thier fault that the age has dropped. My good buddy is a lion guide, they've killed over a 100 lions in the last 25+ years, average weight is usually in the 130-140 pound range, all big mature toms. I think the smallest cat they killed this year was a 130 pounder, biggest was in the 170 range.
I'd be intersted to know the percentage of female lions killed by NR 'dudes' compared to resident DIY hunters, I'll be its 1 to 4 or more. As a mater of fact I can only think of a handful of DIY hunters that I know that have killed mature cats, and can think of probalby 30 or more that shot dinks over the last 5-6 years. IMO the 'tag soup' mentality goes both ways with the majority of the guys that kill any cat being resident DIY guys. I can't say as I blame them after cleaning up dog chit all year long, but... If you're in the sport and settle for killing dinks, why not take up coon hunting.
I think the wolf should be on quota lions include a healthy trophy fee along with it. I think the grizzly's should be on draw basis, tag prices same as the big three. But make the season archery only, that way they could give out 20 times as many tags.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Agree with Bambi....quota for wolves, draw for grizzly. Like the archery angle for grizzly as well!
Point Creep
Well-known member
Come on you pricks.. quota for Grizz.. at least the first year.
AZ402
Well-known member
Unless the regs are filled with nudie pics, no way is he reading through them.
beardown
New member
actually no I have not, sounds interesting
I talked to the local houndsman and so far this year they have only taken one cat with the group of dogs that I hunted with last year. The cat was a male that only weighed 146 , I have herd of another taken by locals that was 164
My buddy seemed really happy with the draw system, he said everybody is looking for mature cats unlike they did in the past. He feels that we are finally going to start getting better cats now that the quota system is gone
