Missing the Point on Shootings

[Corax]

The Connecticut shootings were obviously a horrific act, but IMO as a nation we are missing the point.

How many murders did this character watch on TV or simulate on video games? There is too much money involved here, and the money is being made by the same media that to a large extent shape the debate on gun control. By shifting the debate to guns, they get a free pass on TV violence.

Fin catches heat for shooting one wolf after a grueling 11 day hunt, but if you turn on most shows, something is happening in the first 30 seconds to get your adrenaline up. The ONLY important feature of the programming is that you stay tuned for the next commercial.

I propose we work to re-shape the debate. Most "solutions" proposed would take away what rights we have left, while doing nothing to stop the violence.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Because government censorship is preferable than freedom of speech.

 

[huntme]

not government,we the people need to make changes,untill we the people change our lives,nothing is going to change,it will all stay the same,if bible principles,or just basic to live by principles are followed,things would get better.:hump:

 

[BuzzH]

bullshit...

How many people have died because of someones "god"....???

 

[Gerald Martin]

How many people have died because of someones "god"....???

Hitler? Stalin? Lenin? Mao? Pol Pot? I don't think their actions were especially inspired by devotion to God. Perhaps the argument could be made that their "god" was whatever political system they were seeking to put in place.

That's a tired old argument BuzzH.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm sure all those killed in the name of "god", and those that will be in the future, wouldnt agree the argument is tired or old.

Oh, and Gerald...if you dont think god and religion havent killed anyone...how do you explain the Crusades? How about the protestants and catholics killing each other. What about something I just read on this board the other day, rhomas stating his "hatred of all muslims"?

Yeah, organized religion is such a beautiful thing...

 

[huntme]

I'm sure all those killed in the name of "god", and those that will be in the future, wouldnt agree the argument is tired or old.

Oh, and Gerald...if you dont think god and religion havent killed anyone...how do you explain the Crusades? How about the protestants and catholics killing each other. What about something I just read on this board the other day, rhomas stating his "hatred of all muslims"?

Yeah, organized religion is such a beautiful thing...

man did the killing,why?
because he did not follow what the scriptures say about killing,and god has the right to kill us,because he created us.
and if you want to talk about killing,the government has made killing a way of life,and yet we support them.
do i like all organized religion,no.
that is another story.

 

[OriginalOscar]

Yeah, organized religion is such a beautiful thing...

Yes it is! When I went through RCIA to join the Catholic Church the priest taught us that Catholic means "Universal" and Church means "Community". The literal meaning is Universal Community with belief we are ALL one regardless of where we worship or don't.

Organized religion is capable of wonderful and inspiring actions. Don't fault God for actions of people associated with any religion. God is infallible. Humans are fallible.

As pointed out there have been more people killed under atheist and godless regimes than any sword raised in the name of God.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Oh, and Gerald...if you dont think god and religion havent killed anyone...how do you explain the Crusades? How about the protestants and catholics killing each other. What about something I just read on this board the other day, rhomas stating his "hatred of all muslims"?

Blaming God and organized religion for the evil that men do in violation to his commandments doesn't make sense. Just because someone says he is a Christian doesn't mean anything if his deeds are evil. If a terrorist puts on an American uniform and says God bless America before he blows himself and a bunch of innocent people up he is still an evil terrorist.
Protestants and Catholics killing each other? I don't know. Ask them why. During the Reformation, both Protestants and Catholics were equal opportunity persecuters of the Anabaptist "heratics" that I trace my faith traditions back to.

As far as rhomas' statements. Didn't Forrest Gump have a saying like, "Stupid is as stupid does?" Or maybe "Life is like a box of chocolates". I forget, its been a while since I saw the movie.
Surely, you aren't so shallow as to blame all Christians for an ignorant and intolerant comment such as that? Is there any difference in that rationale than Rhomas equating all Muslims as terrorists?

On the other hand though, I think we would agree on this point. If the government or any group of people, organized religion or otherwise, compels by force the adaptation of values be it "biblical" or otherwise, eventually it will be used for evil.
Huntme said it well,

not government,we the people need to make changes,untill we the people change our lives,nothing is going to change,it will all stay the same,if bible principles,or just basic to live by principles are followed,things would get better.

 

[MattK]

If it were as easy as "getting back to traditional values" and "basic to live by principles", I would be all for it. As pointed out, many religious factions throughout the centuries have been in the middle of conflict. Whether people are persecuted because they are a part of religion or are persecuting others in the name of a religion. Religion is no more the problem as it is the solution. Traditional values have little to do with tragedies such as these. Killings in schools have happened since before the US was the US...1764 (Pennsylvania). The largest occurred in 1927 (49 killed) in Michigan. We aren't talking about eras that didn't exhibit "tradional values" or areas that didn't have a religious background. It may be a mental health issue but often times this isn't discovered until too late. Over-all the US has seen a decline in homicides per capita. But as more people exist, there are more chances for bad things to happen. The best we can do is try to know our neighbors a little better, step in if you feel it's necessary, provide help when you can, and hope that nothing like this happens again...

 

[huntme]

If it were as easy as "getting back to traditional values" and "basic to live by principles", I would be all for it. As pointed out, many religious factions throughout the centuries have been in the middle of conflict. Whether people are persecuted because they are a part of religion or are persecuting others in the name of a religion. Religion is no more the problem as it is the solution. Traditional values have little to do with tragedies such as these. Killings in schools have happened since before the US was the US...1764 (Pennsylvania). The largest occurred in 1927 (49 killed) in Michigan. We aren't talking about eras that didn't exhibit "tradional values" or areas that didn't have a religious background. It may be a mental health issue but often times this isn't discovered until too late. Over-all the US has seen a decline in homicides per capita. But as more people exist, there are more chances for bad things to happen. The best we can do is try to know our neighbors a little better, step in if you feel it's necessary, provide help when you can, and hope that nothing like this happens again...

you make a good point,but,traditional values are not taught to our children,and if they are most do not follow those values,so are children might hear what we say,but they allso see what we do and how we act.