Los Angeles vegetarian and the hidden hunter.

[redduck]

This happened to me a few weeks ago and I thought it was an interesting experience.

My wife just graduated from nursing school in Los Angeles, so me and the friends and family decide to have a party. One of the graduates graciously agrees to host the party, and all we have to do is brings some drinks. We show up to a beautiful home next to the beach with killer views. The food was off the chain, and everything was going well…I started talking to one of my wife’s classmates father Sean. He was a hardcore backcountry, backpacker fly fisherman. He was telling me about all his adventures in the Bitter Roots, Sierras, and a whole bunch of top notch fly fishing destinations. Sean was the first person that I have met in Los Angeles that knew all about the current conservation issues. I am a hunter and proud of it and everyone who knows me or my wife knows that I am a hunter. I told Sean about my first turkey by Ramona California, and then he preceded to tell me how he used to turkey hunt with his grandfather in the Midwest. I then started to talk to his family and found out they were Vegetarians? I was starting to get perplexed by the situation, and I said: “Wait how can you be a vegetarian I saw all of you eating kale burrito turkey wraps ten minutes ago?”. They kindly told me that the family decided to go meatless some years ago for health and environment reason. Then I said again I saw you eating meat 10 minutes ago? Then they preceded to tell me about how they had to start eating some meats because they were getting sick and the doctors told them they weren’t getting enough amino acids and other things in their diet. I told them you can’t be mostly vegetarian and still be vegetarian it just doesn’t work that way. Sean's wife then told me that they were cultural vegetarian. We talked some more about the wolf reintroduction into Yellowstone, and then we went our separate ways.

My wife graduated school but didn’t take her NCLEX examine which makes her a Registered Nurse. My wife then goes to a study session and starts talking to the girls. My wife started talking to Sean’s daughter and said my husband had a great time talking to your dad and they should go hunting sometime. This is where the situation got intense. She said” MY FATHER HAS NEVER HARMED A LIVING THING IN HIS LIFE!!!HE EVEN DOES CATCH AND Releases WHEN HE FISHES, AND HE WOULD NEVER BE A HUNTER.” This woman acted like her father was a Nazi and killed hundreds of people. Sean's daughter didn’t have a clue about hunters or our culture and thought the idea of her dad being a hunter was offensive to her. I was, even more, trouble that this man didn't teach his daughter about hunting and hide it the fact that he hunted in his youth. This was the first time I felt an anti-hunter sentiment in Los Angeles. This situation made me realized I need to start reaching out and educating non-hunters about conservation, hunting, and public land issues. The general public doesn’t know the first thing about hunters or our culture, and show them that we are more than just the stereotype.

 

[Little Big Man MT Chris]

those types sound like trouble, im a vegan but i eat some meat ?? i feel people like that will never understand you becasue they dont want to , and its a waste of time and energy to try. i live just outside of the Portland metro area here in Oregon to the North of you. lost of vegan types here , i just steer clear

 

[okie_hotrod]

I used to work with a few girls that were vegetarian as well, both from the South surprisingly. When I asked about why they made that choice, whether it was for health or moral reasons, they offered some reasons that I may not have agreed with but was able to respect. I never really caught grief despite the fact I wasn't shy about sharing that I was a hunter, but I think it had a lot to do that mutual respect of each other's life choices. I was able to get one of them to admit that hunters and fisherman to do for wildlife and habitat conservation than every other "animal rights" group combined so that felt like a small win. I also think that's there's a respect for someone who's willing to take responsibility for killing an animal that they intend to eat.

 

[jryoung]

This is why we need to be better communicators. If we stick to the core issues that connect with non-hunters, 1. Hunt for food, 2. Hunting is highly regulated, and 3. The fee structure for licenses and gear goes back to conservation we can continue to have a very high approval rating of hunting. Non-hunters don't care about your grip and grin photo or that it's tradition/heritage. We may understand those sentiments, but they do not.

Even living in the SF Bay Area I have yet to really come across an anti-hunter, in fact most people are very curious about hunting. With a strong "foodie" culture and people seeking out the best ingredients they are very open to hunting and I usually try and offer them some meat.

 

[Goatshoes]

This situation made me realized I need to start reaching out and educating non-hunters about conservation, hunting, and public land issues.

Good luck with that.

 

[COEngineer]

"My father would never harm a thing!" Those dead chickens we just ate fell from the sky! LOL

I'm not surprised that a young urbanite has no clue and is offended at the truth; just watch CNN for 5 minutes and you will see plenty of the same.

Good on you for trying and I wish you and your wife the best of luck with spreading the good word.

 

[redduck]

thanks

 

[jryoung]

Good luck with that.

We're less than 5% of the population, if we don't work to educate we won't have to educate. Burying your head won't change an outcome.

We're out numbered

 

[esracerx]

This sounds like a post for the dumbest argument you've ever had thread. SMH

 

[Goatshoes]

We're less than 5% of the population, if we don't work to educate we won't have to educate. Burying your head won't change an outcome.

We're out numbered

Your right.

I have long ago found that reaching out and educating non-hunters about conservation and hunting like most politically charged topics is a no win situation.

Have you ever reached-out to lets say a Mormon or a Catholic and tried to convince her that she is wrong in her faith and tried to educate her that she is on the wrong path? Perhaps you have tried to convince a member of the LGBTQ community that he should go straight? If so, how did it work out? If somebody attempts to educate you that you should abandon your guns and fishing gear and dine solely on plant based matter do you lend them a willing ear or do you politely tell them no thanks?

People are reluctant to change and the first thing they do is become defensive of their position. Odds are the target of your re-education plan will become more entrenched.

In my opinion and experience the only way our 5% is going to have a favorable impact is to live our everyday lives in a manner that engenders respect; then when they find out that you are a hunter, fisherman, conservationist they already have a positive association with you and they are more inclined to respect your beliefs.

Its a bit like hunting bull elk. If you go after him and tell him he would be better off hanging his head on your wall, he'll run away. But if you sound like a hot cow, he'll walk within bow range of you. Broadside...

 

[jryoung]

I think you missed the point. It's not about telling anyone they're wrong or convince them to hunt. It's telling them things they don't know because all they know of hunting is Cecil and a grip and grin photo and not to be an asshole about it.

Living in the SF Bay Area nearly everyone local is a non- hunter. When I brought a 5lb moose roast on a camping trip last weekend with 8 other non-hunting families including a couple of vegetarians everyone enjoyed who ate it enjoyed it and everyone I talked about it with was curious to understand the three points I mentioned above. I've now fed that moose to over 150 non-hunters. I can't tell you how many more I've had at my dinner table eating other wild game. The story is the same with them too.

Maybe my experience is different than yours, because it's nothing like trying to convince someone their faith is wrong or they should be ashamed because of who they love. The sharing of food is as old as civilization toss in some modern day aspects of conservation dollars and regulation and it's a great conversation piece....sure beats talking about the weather.

 

[The Hedgehog]

jr, you're a good guy and spokesman for hunters. Question for you, would you ever bring up varmint or predator hunting (coyote, wolf, bear, etc)? What about the grizzly bear hunt? How would you tread those waters?

 

[LopeHunter]

The father reminds me of the guy that was monogamous but would date from time to time. As for parents allowing snowflakes to adopt ignorant bliss, that is not so rare. The daughter must not have spent much time in the woods with her father or grandfather or asked to hear stories about when they were her age as she was growing up or visited a farm that raised livestock.

Animals die when are displaced to grow vegetables such as carrots, more so if less productive organic methods are used. We drive in automobiles where is rare to not hit a pet or squirrel or other critter at some point in a lifetime. Our lifestyle of bottled water and convenient packaging and everyone drives a car and no one wants weeds in their thick green lawn, etc, is very harmful to the air, water and land. Food choices matter on the impact we have but anyone living in Los Angeles is not living a low impact life, vegan or not. For proof in SoCal merely look up at the smog obscuring the sun and in the shopping carts and trash laying in the L.A. flood viaduct and walk on the local beach littered with millions of plastic straws and cigarette butts.

 

[jryoung]

jr, you're a good guy and spokesman for hunters. Question for you, would you ever bring up varmint or predator hunting (coyote, wolf, bear, etc)? What about the grizzly bear hunt? How would you tread those waters?

I'll talk about any hunting, even Africa. My thoughts are still the same, share facts and reality as well as some anecdotal information and compartmentalize each, because they're all different.

1. Hunting predators (especially canines and cats) isn't an effective way to control population. All the wolves in the lower 48 aren't gonna die because of what you read on Facebook or Wayne Pacelle crying for your dollars. It's incredibly difficult and takes a lot of skill, mental fortitude and a lot of luck, most hunters would prefer to belly up to the bar.

2. Black bear is delicious, I served my last bear to over 50 people. When they hear that spring bear in Montana are grass fed on micro greens and free range they get interested. I'll be honest, everyone I offered bear to was excited to try it, not even a little bit hesitant, and it surprised me. My buddy who has a lovely vegetarian wife said it was the best meat he's ever had at my house.

3. For griz, it's pretty clear where hunting stands, at the bottom, on the delisting. Of the few conversations here that I've had the answer has been consistently "no" when I've asked if they've read the recovery plan and if they know what hunting is like in SW MT in late Feb/early March...the conversation doesn't really go much further.

Bottom line, if we all work to communicate a little more like Shane Mahoney and a lot less Ted Nugent I think it will pay dividends. Maybe I'm trying to piss up a rope, but living here I think I'm well positioned to share what hunting really is to all of us. We can't let the worst offenders be out voice. My vegan friend, won't even address it with me anymore because I've crushed so many of her meme based arguments. Maybe she'll come around to eating meat again....I feel sorry for her husband when eating at home, thank god he travels a lot for work.

 

[Tufrthnails]

I love dinner table education. I have also fed a lot of non-hunters venison and wild hog. I try to have some kind of wild game on the grill for every BBQ get together we especially if it is my wife's friends from teaching. They can obviously see I am a hunter as soon as they walk in my house due to the buck hanging on the wall looking at the front door. When I feed them something that is "exotic" to their diet whether it be alligator, hog, deer, rabbit, or squirrel, which is usually what is in my freezer. They get very interested in the how and why.

Shane Mahoney is a very well spoken man and I don't hold a candle to him. I often suggest different podcasts with him to people interested in the history of conservation what it took for me and my son to have the opportunity to hunt my own dinner. Surprisingly I have had several non hunters come back and say they loved listening to him and we often discuss points they grabbed and held on to. I've found it is easiest to listen first and speak last when discussing hunting and conservation.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I'll talk about any hunting, even Africa. My thoughts are still the same, share facts and reality as well as some anecdotal information and compartmentalize each, because they're all different.

1. Hunting predators (especially canines and cats) isn't an effective way to control population. All the wolves in the lower 48 aren't gonna die because of what you read on Facebook or Wayne Pacelle crying for your dollars. It's incredibly difficult and takes a lot of skill, mental fortitude and a lot of luck, most hunters would prefer to belly up to the bar.

2. Black bear is delicious, I served my last bear to over 50 people. When they hear that spring bear in Montana are grass fed on micro greens and free range they get interested. I'll be honest, everyone I offered bear to was excited to try it, not even a little bit hesitant, and it surprised me. My buddy who has a lovely vegetarian wife said it was the best meat he's ever had at my house.

3. For griz, it's pretty clear where hunting stands, at the bottom, on the delisting. Of the few conversations here that I've had the answer has been consistently "no" when I've asked if they've read the recovery plan and if they know what hunting is like in SW MT in late Feb/early March...the conversation doesn't really go much further.

Bottom line, if we all work to communicate a little more like Shane Mahoney and a lot less Ted Nugent I think it will pay dividends. Maybe I'm trying to piss up a rope, but living here I think I'm well positioned to share what hunting really is to all of us. We can't let the worst offenders be out voice. My vegan friend, won't even address it with me anymore because I've crushed so many of her meme based arguments. Maybe she'll come around to eating meat again....I feel sorry for her husband when eating at home, thank god he travels a lot for work.

Not to steer away from the point I was getting at, but..
1) On predators, ineffective or not, how do you discuss this with non-hunters? Specifically coyotes and wolves? What's the positive spin to a non-hunter?
2) Regarding black bear meat - I prefer elk, antelope, and deer. But none the less, I LOVE HUNTING BLACK BEARS in the spring. Is this something I shouldn't talk about with non-hunters?
3) On grizzlies, delisting around the Park aside, hunters have been hunting them since before they stopped wearing loin clothes, and for many recent yeas in Alaska and Canada. Most non-resident hunters pay in excess of 10 grand to do it. Not sure of how that table fare is, but is this kind of hunting something you can talk about with non-hunters?

At what point is it just okay to say, I just really love to get out and go hunting?

 

[cgarner]

Not to steer away from the point I was getting at, but..
1) On predators, ineffective or not, how do you discuss this with non-hunters? Specifically coyotes and wolves? What's the positive spin to a non-hunter?
2) Regarding black bear meat - I prefer elk, antelope, and deer. But none the less, I LOVE HUNTING BLACK BEARS in the spring. Is this something I shouldn't talk about with non-hunters?
3) On grizzlies, delisting around the Park aside, hunters have been hunting them since before they stopped wearing loin clothes, and for many recent yeas in Alaska and Canada. Most non-resident hunters pay in excess of 10 grand to do it. Not sure of how that table fare is, but is this kind of hunting something you can talk about with non-hunters?

At what point is it just okay to say, I just really love to get out and go hunting?

I think it depends on the situation and how rational the person is you are talking too. I have a lot of friends that don't hunt, but they aren't opposed to hunting, they just don't want to. The eat wild game every time I have them over and they always want to know when they can come back over for dinner. However, when I first moved to CA a new buddy introduced me to a group of young women as his friend that likes to hunt. One of the girls quickly responded with " You sound like a very cruel person" when I asked why she tip toed the anti hunting line of "it is cruel to harm any living creature", when I quizzed her about her back ground in wildlife management, conservation issues, habitat destruction due to development, hunting for food...etc... she quickly claimed up and stated nothing trumps cruelty. I excused myself from her presence. Some people can't be reasoned with but I will say it is far and few between in my experience.

 

[idnative1948]

Dude! You have your hands full and better be able to back up your comments to them with facts and nothing but facts or some of them may eat you alive or cause bodily harm. I wish you well, having been there.