LE Units and death from old age

[Bullshot]

I just got to thinking....are there any LE units in any state where a mature bull elk stands a reasonable chance of dying naturally from old age rather than hunting?? If so, I would equate that to the absolute limit, of where the game commissions should provide a few more tags to "prevent" that (statistically) from being the case. It could move more people through each system and would probably mean we all settled for a reduction in "max potential" in that unit but also would mean we didn't just leave trophies on the mountain to decline and disappear in anonymity. I suspect the truth is closer to there are no such units, and that most extremely mature bulls eventually fall to a bullet or arrow.

Followup question if there are no magical units with full age class elk. What do game departments manage to in those cases, for top end areas. 90% max? 75%. Less? Is it just bull:cow ratios? Age distribution? What defines management of a "trophy" unit.

 

[wytex]

I know general area that may well fit that bill. Mostly private and a very healthy elk population.
I see no problem with a bull living out it's lifetime and dying a natural death.

 

[Oak]

My opinion is that there are plenty of limited units where bulls can die of old age. Reasons: inaccessibility due to rugged terrain or private land, some bulls never reach the size considered to be a "trophy" worthy of wrapping two decades of points around its antler, they don't get old by being dumb, etc. I also don't have a problem with having hunting units where animals die of old age. I think it can happen in OTC units in CO, and I certainly don't want more pressure there. The notion that you can increase hunting pressure until no bulls live out their natural life does not sound appealing or like anything I would promote.

 

[CForest]

I would say if there aren't some that die from old age your age class is too low, hunting pressure too high etc....

 

[rustednuts]

There is a unit in AZ that is not a trophy unit that has some spots that are over 12 miles from the nearest road and is think and steep canyon country. I imagine some bulls live out there lives there barely ever seeing a human.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I think the whole question kind of assumes that agencies know far more specific info than they ever could about age class and individual animals across units. Ratios are a pretty effective management level surrogate.

 

[Bullshot]

I know general area that may well fit that bill. Mostly private and a very healthy elk population.
I see no problem with a bull living out it's lifetime and dying a natural death.

Good point, I hadn’t considered the private land sanctuaries in my original post. I am with others not necessarily wishing for more pressure or hunting in order to eliminate old elk. But I would think that a game department’s management philosophy for trophy class units has to have some very practical limitations and that they would ultimately choose to err on the side of more $$ and hunters than to manage for the biggest possible bull and even less so for any romantic or nostalgic notion of leaving a few big ones on the mountain. as hunters though, we all would hope or dream is the case. But good for the elk that find a hideout that even in todays technological age is too far, too remote, too steep or thick for even the most motivated hunters and outfitters to get to.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Do animals exist for us, or do we exist for them?