Keep wealth tags for big-game hunting out of Idaho
- Thread starter Ithaca 37
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
Schmaltz,
You said this on the big game forum:
"Beware of embracing any ORG that is nonprofit." On this one you said non nonprofit. Which one is it? FYI a non profit can and often pays salaries to it's staff. Personally, I prefer that they did not, should be all volunter in my book. But in today's world of big organizations that raise a lot of funds like the RMEF, that is not always practicle. They raise more funds even after expensing the salaries, than they would opperating on volunter labor entirely. I can understand that this can anger some people. I can also see the good that organizations like RMEF and FNAWS does as well. This issue is not black and white, and that is why I would like to see some serious discussion on it. How about it, IT?
So Schmaltz, is all this information hear say your providing? Can you provide any information about who SFW is, and what there about? What issue's do they fund, and how much? Give examples of how they "cater to the rich and take from the poor". Thanks in advance.
You said this on the big game forum:
"Beware of embracing any ORG that is nonprofit." On this one you said non nonprofit. Which one is it? FYI a non profit can and often pays salaries to it's staff. Personally, I prefer that they did not, should be all volunter in my book. But in today's world of big organizations that raise a lot of funds like the RMEF, that is not always practicle. They raise more funds even after expensing the salaries, than they would opperating on volunter labor entirely. I can understand that this can anger some people. I can also see the good that organizations like RMEF and FNAWS does as well. This issue is not black and white, and that is why I would like to see some serious discussion on it. How about it, IT?
So Schmaltz, is all this information hear say your providing? Can you provide any information about who SFW is, and what there about? What issue's do they fund, and how much? Give examples of how they "cater to the rich and take from the poor". Thanks in advance.
Nemont
Well-known member
BHR,
Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife SFW in a not for profit organization formed in Utah and headed by Don Peay. Like many grass root organizations that begin with the best of intentions SFW has taken the road of so many others, the people in charge came to do good and ended up doing well.
Don Peay is more comfortable around power politics then around the average hunter. SFW has accomplished several good things but if you study most of their recent moves it becomes apparent that now money is the sole drive force. They were the driving force behind taking many NR tags out of the regular draw and having a raffle for them that forced NR hunters to attend a conference in Salt Lake. If you study the way they set their agenda and then get it rubber stamped by the RAC councils you will see that they are out for what is best for people with deep pockets and not the game populations or the average hunter.
It is sort of like DU buying a premier Duck hunting property in Texas, with member contributions and dues money, that is for only the DU bigwigs and their guests. Once these organizations get so big they no longer care about anything other then their own continued growth. FNAWS may be the lone exception.
Nemont
Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife SFW in a not for profit organization formed in Utah and headed by Don Peay. Like many grass root organizations that begin with the best of intentions SFW has taken the road of so many others, the people in charge came to do good and ended up doing well.
Don Peay is more comfortable around power politics then around the average hunter. SFW has accomplished several good things but if you study most of their recent moves it becomes apparent that now money is the sole drive force. They were the driving force behind taking many NR tags out of the regular draw and having a raffle for them that forced NR hunters to attend a conference in Salt Lake. If you study the way they set their agenda and then get it rubber stamped by the RAC councils you will see that they are out for what is best for people with deep pockets and not the game populations or the average hunter.
It is sort of like DU buying a premier Duck hunting property in Texas, with member contributions and dues money, that is for only the DU bigwigs and their guests. Once these organizations get so big they no longer care about anything other then their own continued growth. FNAWS may be the lone exception.
Nemont
Ten Bears
New member
Where's IT in all this?
Nemont
Well-known member
This is taken directly from their website. SFW makes me nervous because they do not like input from their membershi and generally take attitude of: Give us your money and don't worry what we do with it because we know what is best for you.
Also they are kind of proud of what they supposedly "accomplish".
Also they are kind of proud of what they supposedly "accomplish".
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Ten,
Maybe IT got his wings clipped like myself recently for being a bad boy, as well as Bin Banned Again. I'm going to see if SFW has a website to see if they have information about their organization and what they do with their funds.
Nemont,
National FNAWS does have an executive director Ray Lee, that I believe does get some compensation. How much I don't know. He is a good guy, and what he does is a full time job. To be honest, I do have some issues with this however. MT FNAWS is entirely volunteer. The other state chapters, I can not say for sure.
Maybe IT got his wings clipped like myself recently for being a bad boy, as well as Bin Banned Again. I'm going to see if SFW has a website to see if they have information about their organization and what they do with their funds.
Nemont,
National FNAWS does have an executive director Ray Lee, that I believe does get some compensation. How much I don't know. He is a good guy, and what he does is a full time job. To be honest, I do have some issues with this however. MT FNAWS is entirely volunteer. The other state chapters, I can not say for sure.
Nemont
Well-known member
I save you some time on their website search.
http://www.sfwsfh.org/index.html
I don't know that I have a problem with guys getting paid for full time work in these organizations. The challenge I have is it seems that once they reach a certain size the organizations get taken over by the same kind of people. They are not content to just improve habitat and increase hunting opportunity they want to rub elbows with the wealthy and politically well connected or both. The organizations begin to develop a PR dept. which is aimed soley at increasing donations but not necessarily to help out the game population. I tune these organizations out once they begin to build bigger corporate offices and don't like to account for the dollars flowing into them. RMEF is, I believe, currently in this cycle and will only continue to become more and more disconnected from it's roots.
Nemont
http://www.sfwsfh.org/index.html
I don't know that I have a problem with guys getting paid for full time work in these organizations. The challenge I have is it seems that once they reach a certain size the organizations get taken over by the same kind of people. They are not content to just improve habitat and increase hunting opportunity they want to rub elbows with the wealthy and politically well connected or both. The organizations begin to develop a PR dept. which is aimed soley at increasing donations but not necessarily to help out the game population. I tune these organizations out once they begin to build bigger corporate offices and don't like to account for the dollars flowing into them. RMEF is, I believe, currently in this cycle and will only continue to become more and more disconnected from it's roots.
Nemont
Tom
New member
If they want to raise a lot of money, another way to do it for one of those tags is to sell rafle tickets. That way its not just rich, its anybody who could affor a rafle ticket. Lots of people gamble a little in the draws every year for a normal tag, there would be more who would gamble a little more, if it was a donation for wildlife on a highly desirable tag. That's an alternative to get big money that's a little more work.
Those Utah tags are still cheap, cheaper than the cost of raising those animals probably. I've not investigated hunting in Utah much, maybe I should. The discrepency between resident and non-resident seems more fair to a non-resident than some other places.
Those Utah tags are still cheap, cheaper than the cost of raising those animals probably. I've not investigated hunting in Utah much, maybe I should. The discrepency between resident and non-resident seems more fair to a non-resident than some other places.
wileywapati
New member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2005
- Messages
- 4
Gentlemen SFW is classified as a 501(c)7 Organization which means that they can
lobby politicians. SFH or sportsmen for Habitat is the fundraising side of this cluster.
The whole point to the anti SFW stance is the fact that this group is currently trying to do away with the 5% cap for conservation tags in Utah and basically open up the tags to the discretion of the Wildlife Board.
Don Peay is involved in the hiring process for this Board which has final say on wildlife laws in Utah, and the current SFW President is a RAC member which is basically one step ahead of the Wildlife Board.
Now is Don the devil ?? I have no idea I don't know Don personally and I can tell you
he has done some good, What I will tell you is that these wealth auction tags come right off the top of the public draw allottments weather they are for this hairbrained convention or the regular auction tags.
In Utah I have 6 bonus points for elk. I have faced the fact I will never draw a LTD Entry elk tag to hunt in my own state, and the pisser of the whole thing is certain guides can go around and Buy as many tags as they can produce checks for and sell them to their shooters. Add to this the Bounty hunting / Video scouting angle and you have an unfair Cluster F!@# of huge proportions.
Idaho this will happen to you as well........ not if but when
lobby politicians. SFH or sportsmen for Habitat is the fundraising side of this cluster.
The whole point to the anti SFW stance is the fact that this group is currently trying to do away with the 5% cap for conservation tags in Utah and basically open up the tags to the discretion of the Wildlife Board.
Don Peay is involved in the hiring process for this Board which has final say on wildlife laws in Utah, and the current SFW President is a RAC member which is basically one step ahead of the Wildlife Board.
Now is Don the devil ?? I have no idea I don't know Don personally and I can tell you
he has done some good, What I will tell you is that these wealth auction tags come right off the top of the public draw allottments weather they are for this hairbrained convention or the regular auction tags.
In Utah I have 6 bonus points for elk. I have faced the fact I will never draw a LTD Entry elk tag to hunt in my own state, and the pisser of the whole thing is certain guides can go around and Buy as many tags as they can produce checks for and sell them to their shooters. Add to this the Bounty hunting / Video scouting angle and you have an unfair Cluster F!@# of huge proportions.
Idaho this will happen to you as well........ not if but when
Ten Bears
New member
No, I've seen IT slinking around here today. I'm just curious what he really thinks of SFW. I personally believe in local sportsmans groups rather then local chapters of national organizations.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
I checked out the SFW site, thanks for the link Nemont. To me it seems that the guys with the big bucks are looking for big racks. One guy paid $80,000 for a Utah deer tag and was hoping to find 30" plus mulie with it. Is this good or is this bad? The money is going to fund wildlife. The Colorado guys complain that their F&G is too liberal. The Utah guys complain that their F&G is too conservative. The non reident hunter wants more tags available to them and the residents want less non residents and those that do come to pay through the nose. Where is the happy medium, and how do we fund wildlife and make everyone happy?
Come to think of it our F&G department is basically in the business of selling and raffling off hunting tags as well as managing the herds. They seem to get shot at from all sides at times.
I think the big rack syndrome has a lot to do with where we are at today with wildlife management. That and more people wanting to consume a limited resource. Sprinkle in the fact that we live in a capitalist society, and this is where were at. And for those that think communism or socialism is the way to go, the powerfull in those forms of government would get first pick as well. I think we have the best system to make it fair for the wildlife, the average hunter, and the elite hunter. Just needs a little tweeking to make it better.
As for Idaho turning into a cluster, maybe, maybe not. Idaho has a lot of wilderness, with a lot of these areas containing animals not noted for their trophy quality. Tough areas to hunt with smaller horned animals on public land will allow for the average hunter the opportunity for a great experience if they are willing to put in the effort, and settle for less than Boone and Crockett antlers. JMO however.
Come to think of it our F&G department is basically in the business of selling and raffling off hunting tags as well as managing the herds. They seem to get shot at from all sides at times.
I think the big rack syndrome has a lot to do with where we are at today with wildlife management. That and more people wanting to consume a limited resource. Sprinkle in the fact that we live in a capitalist society, and this is where were at. And for those that think communism or socialism is the way to go, the powerfull in those forms of government would get first pick as well. I think we have the best system to make it fair for the wildlife, the average hunter, and the elite hunter. Just needs a little tweeking to make it better.
As for Idaho turning into a cluster, maybe, maybe not. Idaho has a lot of wilderness, with a lot of these areas containing animals not noted for their trophy quality. Tough areas to hunt with smaller horned animals on public land will allow for the average hunter the opportunity for a great experience if they are willing to put in the effort, and settle for less than Boone and Crockett antlers. JMO however.
Wally Dog
Well-known member
Ten,
I can't speak for the other National organizations.........but if you have concerns bout the monies generated in Idaho not coming back to Idaho.....I would tell you that NWTF has budgeted nearly 50k for 2005 to be spent in Idaho with zero/nada/nix paid personel within the State/Local chapter system. 100% Volunteer!
WD
I can't speak for the other National organizations.........but if you have concerns bout the monies generated in Idaho not coming back to Idaho.....I would tell you that NWTF has budgeted nearly 50k for 2005 to be spent in Idaho with zero/nada/nix paid personel within the State/Local chapter system. 100% Volunteer!
WD
BigHornRam
Well-known member
"No, I've seen IT slinking around here today. I'm just curious what he really thinks of SFW."
Figures! He likes to stir things up with his endangered butterfly topics, but never weighs in on the important topics. I doubt he'ld have anything worthwhile to say anyway.
Ten,
I belong to a local sportsmens group as well as FNAWS. The local group does some good things but struggles to raise money.
Figures! He likes to stir things up with his endangered butterfly topics, but never weighs in on the important topics. I doubt he'ld have anything worthwhile to say anyway.
Ten,
I belong to a local sportsmens group as well as FNAWS. The local group does some good things but struggles to raise money.
A few things, I type fast and make mistakes.. so i mixed the nonprofit things up on that one. You need to understand that SFW has a little sister ORG they lump together called SFH , this way one is profit and one isnt. they use a little loophole so they can get the conservation tags on one and still not have to show the financials of the other (nonprofit has to be public) Thsi is what i was told, and you will not get a response form SFW on this topic. Another reason to beware, what are they hiding??
Also. about this convention scam SFW is spearheading, Don Peays Lame excuse is this will pull all the other ORGS together and save money. O.K. i buy that but... arent they going to pull together the tags they already have?? why do they need these additional tags from the drawing then? isnt that double dipping? they should be using the tags they already have and use them at this mega convention if it is such a good idea!
Then the percentages are so unfair its sickening, they are trying to take OVER 25% of the nonres tags for this and give them out at a "in person to win" function!
Don Peay spouts about how great the elk numbers increased in UT in the last few years like it was all SFW doings. Well let me ask you this, what state has not had an elk increase?? CO is at an all time high, is that SFW's doings too? Give me a break.
They will make less opportunity for the usual guy hunting and more for the rich.
Under SFW ideas the LE tag numbers in UT would have to more than double before the nonres drawings were where they were before they pull these extra 25% tags. Simple math.
SFW's idea on this one is that as usual a lot of money is made from nonres tags but this time he wants to make even more off those tags by funneling them to the rich.
I hate to say it but he is a crooked politician and a lier trying to sugar coat a turd. He talks in ways that sound appealing and many are buying it.
SFW took a strong foothold in UT and now there is many guys talking that they regret it happened but the power they wield is too great to reverse it because of all the political power DP has behind the curtians.
ID residents, you are better off with the hunting you have now than making more hunting opportunity in the future for only the rich. Let the rich wait in line with bonus points like the rest of us.
I truely believe that the UT tag grab they are trying to do will be the start of the end of SFW, I hope so, maybe then the F&G will put together a way of making money all by themselves with somethig like a conservation stamp.
Also. about this convention scam SFW is spearheading, Don Peays Lame excuse is this will pull all the other ORGS together and save money. O.K. i buy that but... arent they going to pull together the tags they already have?? why do they need these additional tags from the drawing then? isnt that double dipping? they should be using the tags they already have and use them at this mega convention if it is such a good idea!
Then the percentages are so unfair its sickening, they are trying to take OVER 25% of the nonres tags for this and give them out at a "in person to win" function!
Don Peay spouts about how great the elk numbers increased in UT in the last few years like it was all SFW doings. Well let me ask you this, what state has not had an elk increase?? CO is at an all time high, is that SFW's doings too? Give me a break.
They will make less opportunity for the usual guy hunting and more for the rich.
Under SFW ideas the LE tag numbers in UT would have to more than double before the nonres drawings were where they were before they pull these extra 25% tags. Simple math.
SFW's idea on this one is that as usual a lot of money is made from nonres tags but this time he wants to make even more off those tags by funneling them to the rich.
I hate to say it but he is a crooked politician and a lier trying to sugar coat a turd. He talks in ways that sound appealing and many are buying it.
SFW took a strong foothold in UT and now there is many guys talking that they regret it happened but the power they wield is too great to reverse it because of all the political power DP has behind the curtians.
ID residents, you are better off with the hunting you have now than making more hunting opportunity in the future for only the rich. Let the rich wait in line with bonus points like the rest of us.
I truely believe that the UT tag grab they are trying to do will be the start of the end of SFW, I hope so, maybe then the F&G will put together a way of making money all by themselves with somethig like a conservation stamp.
