Judge is tired

[ELKCHSR]

NRA is buisness, and wether you believe in every thing they say or do, canned hunts are still leagle and whoever helps them promote the second amendment, as long as it is leagle, then there really isn't a problem...Unless down the road game farms are mandated out of existance as they have done pretty much here, then there would be a problem...
They are big buisness, so they will get their money's any way they can and stay with in the law doing it, it is your right to send them money or not...

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Will you admit that all environmental groups are not extreme in their views as some that you listed (ie Earth First)? Your blanket statement of all environmental groups being extreme and against all use is just as bad as Ithaca saying tha all ATVs are bad, of which you get on him for."

1Pointer,of course I will admit to that.
I have said I believe there are many good org. out there.
That's the point ,when we as hunter's or outdoorsmen try so hard to force other's into a mold ( the way Ithaca has always done) it does more harm then good.
My feeling on joining org. or club's are much the same as Elkgunner's,we also dropped the NRA ,for the same reason.
While I dont agree with everything that RMEF does,we are members.
On the multipal use groups and what they support.
I know that many members are also hunters and like me support other org.
From the people I know,many do not fit the (lable) that Ithaca tryes so hard to place them in.So going on that I have had to question much of what he post's.
Something to think about,if I own an ATV and I also support RMEF ,Deerhunter of Idaho,many of the archery club's,as well as non-hunting related community related thing's
where do I fit in?
Alot of these over zealot people do more harm by trying to force there view's on others then they would by understanding a person can be an environmentlist and see the need for protection while still liking some of the things the world has to offer.

Ithaca,I ran into one of your buddies that was out collection signiture

I told him I was going to sign, but I know this burk guy and he knows everything and he told me not to sign it because it was a load of crap

The guy about fell over and said (burk) told you that? I just said yep and walked away.

Tell Don and Larry I'll see them at the next shoot

we have had a few good laughs over you.

 

[Lostagain]

the extreme enviro groups that I was challenged to find=== IT wanted five, I have four. I asked around and these four were the ones given to me; Native Forest Network, Lands Council, Ecology Center, and Alliance for the Wild Rockies. Source is Matt Koehler.

 

[1_pointer]

Thanks MD, we aren't that much different!

I know you still like me!

I support orgs that are getting done what I feel needs done is a specific area of concern. Some are different, but I just don't go into the 7 degrees of association before I support a group. My main concern is wildlife habitat and right now am only supporting RMEF and TNC. For me, they are the best bang for the buck right now. I deem that habitat is more important that certain other issues. Can't hunt without animals and can't have animals without habitat.

I like EG logic of finding groups with a specific purpose/goal. Those groups will probably reach that better because they are more focused.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-15-2003 14:15: Message edited by: 1_pointer ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

MD, Truth is; you're regarded as a nut by the people who know what's going on, so they just laugh and go along with you. As I've said: you're irrelevant.

They think you're a joke.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-15-2003 15:22: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Lostagain]

Judge Molloy stated" ...It doesn't matter whether I like the forest service decisions or not, I have to decide the legal issues, DID THE FOREST SERVICE DO ITS WORK CORRECTLY..." He goes on to say, the courts have just become 'another tool in the debate' between the enviromentalists and the timber-dependent communities, but that debate ought to be conducted elsewhere, such as Congress...
This is the Kootenai case where the TECI is arguing against the USFS entirely on ONE statement in their forest plan.

In the Lolo post-burn case, the Seirra Club argued that the LNF should NOT rely on its forest plan.

No wonder judge molloy is tired.

 

[Ithaca 37]

LA, you were challenged to PROVE it, too.

"Name five groups that you think espouse that and prove it!"

So you named four and didn't prove anything! Still no credibility!

 

[Lostagain]

And if we went by IT 's statement that those folks that don't attend meetings should be irrelevent, then the TECI should be thrown out, they didn't attend even a single meeting. Now they want a three year injunction on this forest plan.

 

[Lostagain]

IT=== Obviously you don't want to REALLY be associated with matt koehler then. You're just a paper enviro then, not a real enviro.

 

[Ithaca 37]

LA, Since you claimed that ALL the extreme environmental groups want to ban all logging I thought it would be easy for you to name five and give us some proof. Can't do it, huh!

 

[Lostagain]

I think you ought to join MD4M at that reading comp class you keep telling her to attend.
I asked about the EXTREME enviro groups, not all, and I gave you four that Matt Koehler passed along, not good enough for the greatIT?

 

[Ithaca 37]

LA, Here's what you said. Go check it!

"If you look at the background of the extreme enviro orgs, you'll note that their public pronouncements are often at odds with their underlying philosophy. They all beleive that logging should be banned on public lands, that motorized travel should be severely..."

Notice the part where ya said, "They ALL believe..."?

I think you're the one who needs the reading lessons!

As I keep saying---you have no (ZERO) credibility. Give up!

 

[Lostagain]

You are too low, maybe some prozac would help ya. Since you keep pulling everyone else down to your level, I'll give ya a hand up.

"If you look at the background of the ________ enviro orgs," what word is left out? OH, that's right, EXTREME.... not all.

When are those classes you are going to take MD4M, IT?

 

[Lostagain]

Now, anybody wish to refute the claim ' the judge is tired', or should we chalk it up as EXTREME enviros?

 

[Ithaca 37]

LA, This is ridiculous! Can't you read? Continue on to the next sentence: "They --- beleive that logging should be banned...".!! Now, what three letter word did I leave out (hint: it begins with "a" and ends with "l" and there's an "l" in the middle)?

To whom were you referring when you said, "They ALL beleive (sic) that logging..." if you weren't referring to the "extreme enviro orgs" ?

Please get somebody to help you read what you posted. Anyone who doesn't know what they posted when it's right in front of them is hopeless!

I can't be wasting anymore time trying to help you read.

 

[Washington Hunter]

I guess I'll see if I can help LA out here. I see on the Sierra Club's website that they want logging banned on National Forest lands. I have trouble believing that is really their position, because most everything else on their website I agree with, but that is what they are saying. I'm thinking maybe they are just taking that extreme view, knowing that a complete ban would never happen, and hoping to at least get the Forest Service to compromise. I definitely think the way our National Forests are managed could use some change, but I sure don't want to see a complete end to logging like the Sierra Club seems to want. Here is a statement on the issue from their website:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>America's first National Forests were established for the people more than one hundred years ago. Since then the timber industry has turned our publicly owned National Forests into a patchwork of clearcuts and logging roads. To restore healthy forest ecosystems and sustainable local economies, and to preserve our National Forests for years to come, we must end commercial logging on federal lands.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ithaca, is this what you were looking for?

 

[Oak]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's their stance. Hell, they've been fighting the Forest Service every since John Muir and Gifford Pinchot butted heads over Hetch Hetchy. I wonder what the FS would be like today if Teddy had appointed Muir as head of the FS instead of Pinchot?

Oak

 

[Ithaca 37]

Wash., I've been aware of the Sierra Club position on stopping all logging on Nat'l Forests since they made it public a few years ago. I've heard they took the extreme position just to balance out the wise use nuts.

 

[Washington Hunter]

I could almost understand them not wanting clearcuts, or wanting to save the little old growth that is left, or not building any more roads into roadless areas of our National Forests. But I sure can't agree with a total end to logging. That makes no sense. I guess that's why I joined TNC.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Okay Ithaca, just what I thought. I do agree with their position on more fire being necessary for healthier forests. In fact I agree with most everything on their website. Looks like they are doing a lot of good. I think I read somewhere, a while back, that 20% of their members are actually hunters.