Invasive Mtn Goats in GTNP have to go

[PrairieHunter]

With so many states or areas struggling to establish sheep maybe they should think about getting some of these goats.

On second thought a random draw for residents with one going to a NR would be fine.

 

[BigHornRam]

Thanks Bonnie. I will check both out.

 

[Anyfish]

Olympic National Park in WA tried to deal with non native mountain goats 30 ish years ago by live trapping. They got a bunch out but couldn’t get the rest without lethal methods and they were shut down by congress to prohibit shooting them in the national park. They have since repopulated and are again being live trapped and shipped to other areas in the northwest that want goats.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Not entirely accurate. I would favor a hunt to reduce the goat population, but it is in a National park and the reality of hunting there would be slim at best.

There has been talk about having an unlimited mountain goat hunt in the Wyoming wilderness along the east side of Yellowstone park to reduce their numbers. I would favor that idea as well.

Why not have a goat hunt in GTNP? They already have an Elk hunt there.

 

[BigHornRam]

Blake's advisor is Doctor Garrott. Good work coming out of MSU these days. Lot to digest here, need to spend more time digging into it.

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ecs2.1769

 

[greatwhitebuffalo]

Olympic National Park in WA tried to deal with non native mountain goats 30 ish years ago by live trapping. They got a bunch out but couldn’t get the rest without lethal methods and they were shut down by congress to prohibit shooting them in the national park. They have since repopulated and are again being live trapped and shipped to other areas in the northwest that want goats.

Thanks for the comment. There's a good bit of information on the supporting details, but I was looking for how the final decision gets made on issues like this. https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/this...huJw8Sv1Dm5XEujeTqz8wZexxZiUnWEUfsecU165i0HAA

Appears that they've already made the decision to hunt; just excluding the public and the associated fair chase methods. My ultimate question is: Is there anyone in the political chain yelling for public access/fair chase methods?

 

[BigHornRam]

An updated news article with details.

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/article_abd0a886-fb9a-5981-a809-9c451a49cbdb.html

Wyoming is planning a hunt outside of the Park for next year. From the article.........

"To assist with the planned eradication, Wyoming wildlife managers are holding special draw-hunt for goats outside the park on Caribou-Targhee National Forest land beginning next fall. The licenses will be “Type A,” and they will not be once-in-a-lifetime like other mountain goat hunting opportunities in Wyoming."

 

[PrairieHunter]

Interesting. Sounds like a great opportunity to draw a tag.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

What I don't like about the whole issue, is that I've never read any conclusive evidence that mountain goats give sheep pneumonia like is being claimed. Its being perpetuated as a fact, and the fact is, the science doesn't exist. It bothers me that the WYGF is getting in front of the commission claiming there is a disease transmission issue and a need to kill off goats so it doesn't spread to sheep.

If we're going to manage with science, then do it...otherwise, we're simply placing a hierarchy and playing god with one species taking priority over another...and no longer managing via science.

Further, if the decision by the Wyoming Game and Fish is to eliminate a species, they should NOT be doing so via using Sportsmen as the tool to eliminate a species. Get the helicopter and buckshot out and let them be the bad-guy that wipes out goats. I don't want hunters anywhere near that grand idea, let the Game and Fish try to justify their ideas via anything to do with science.

Its a joke...and IMO, the GF and NPS are both a bit off the rails and out in the rhubarb on this one.

Usually I agree totally with your posts, but in this case........it appears that we already played god by introducing mountain goats to an area where they did not beloong. I guess I also do not have a problem when an agency chooses to manage in favor of a native species rather than a non-native one

 

[Anyfish]

Indeed in the case of Olympic National Park, the non native goats have an affinity for over eating a few particular plants that only grow in a few ridges in the park. The goats were transplanted to the park decades ago by a sportsman’s group in trade for Roosevelt Elk, but the impact on native unique flora was not anticipated.

 

[PrairieHunter]

The latest.

Grand Teton proposes killing or relocating mountain goats to save bighorn sheep

In the next five years, Grand Teton National Park biologists may kill or remove more than 100 nonnative mountain goats that are quickly expanding and beginning to comingle with one

trib.com

I was kinda hoping hunters might get a chance to shoot and utilize as many as possible each year. Like an unlimited goat hunt in the fall for a couple weeks to keep that population down. Allow any goat to be shot, and make NR tags expensive as hell (and no outfitters allowed) to pay for all the oversight that a hunting season in a NP would require and to help pay for sheep projects for that herd. Would be a really neat opportunity for hunters to solve a problem while utilizing the animals and at the same time raising money for sheep.

These possible outcome of paying people to shoot them and leave them leaves a lot to be desired.

But beginning a hunting season in a national park requires an act of Congress, and using skilled volunteers – essentially hunters who won’t plan to harvest any of the animal – would not be as efficient as trained shooters from aircraft, Dewey said.



I also thought this was interesting.
Relocation also comes with the requirement that officials find somewhere that will take the invasive goats.

 

[BigHornRam]

Mountain Goat removal to save Big Horns to begin Monday - Local News 8

Wayward, non-native goats have prompted Grand Teton National Park to implement a temporary area closure from January 5 through January 12.

localnews8.com

 

[MT_Local]

I see @BigHornRam already posted a link to an article, but here is another link from a Jackson news outlet:

Goat cull to close portions of Grand Teton National Park

Years of planning and public commentary culminate this week with an announcement to reduce numbers of nonnative mountain goat within Grand Teton National Park.

buckrail.com

The park is going forward with the culling beginning next week.

I agree with other posts, that I think it is a best case for hunters that the park is taking care of the culling itself.

Not really related to the conservation issue at hand - but my father-in-law's family homesteaded in Jackson, actually the homestead is now part of the park. He has stories of rams living on the west side of Jackson Lake that were 'flat-heads' as he and his friends called them. The assumption is that the rams apparently frequented some of the caves that are visible from the lake and there were signs that they had worn down the tops of their horns flat. Would be fun to see!

We shared a sheep camp in area 7 with a friend who is an outfitter in 2015, and he had heard about the idea of culling the mountain goats then. He also said that there have been talks of an unlimited goat hunt east of Yellowstone, west of Cody. What a wild hunt!

 

[BigHornRam]

I see @BigHornRam already posted a link to an article, but here is another link from a Jackson news outlet:

Goat cull to close portions of Grand Teton National Park

Years of planning and public commentary culminate this week with an announcement to reduce numbers of nonnative mountain goat within Grand Teton National Park.

buckrail.com

The park is going forward with the culling beginning next week.

I agree with other posts, that I think it is a best case for hunters that the park is taking care of the culling itself.

Not really related to the conservation issue at hand - but my father-in-law's family homesteaded in Jackson, actually the homestead is now part of the park. He has stories of rams living on the west side of Jackson Lake that were 'flat-heads' as he and his friends called them. The assumption is that the rams apparently frequented some of the caves that are visible from the lake and there were signs that they had worn down the tops of their horns flat. Would be fun to see!

We shared a sheep camp in area 7 with a friend who is an outfitter in 2015, and he had heard about the idea of culling the mountain goats then. He also said that there have been talks of an unlimited goat hunt east of Yellowstone, west of Cody. What a wild hunt!

Wyoming had a draw goat hunt just outside of Teton Park this fall as well as draw goat hunts to the east of Yellowstone.

Mountain Goat Hunting Season Successful So Far | Jackson Hole Radio

Hunters are finding early success in the first year of a new mountain goat hunting season that was created on the west side of the Teton Range to relieve competition between the non-native goats and a struggling native bighorn sheep herd there. To date, a total of 15 mountain goats have been...

jacksonholeradio.com

 

[BuzzH]

Wyoming had a draw goat hunt just outside of Teton Park this fall as well as draw goat hunts to the east of Yellowstone.

Mountain Goat Hunting Season Successful So Far | Jackson Hole Radio

Hunters are finding early success in the first year of a new mountain goat hunting season that was created on the west side of the Teton Range to relieve competition between the non-native goats and a struggling native bighorn sheep herd there. To date, a total of 15 mountain goats have been...

jacksonholeradio.com

Saw some pictures floating around of some real trophy class goats from those hunts...unbelievable what happens on these type of hunts.

 

[BigHornRam]

Saw some pictures floating around of some real trophy class goats from those hunts...unbelievable what happens on these type of hunts.

No different than the cow elk hunts you do, Buzz. Population reduction hunts are not about trophies.

 

[MT_Local]

Wyoming had a draw goat hunt just outside of Teton Park this fall as well as draw goat hunts to the east of Yellowstone.

Mountain Goat Hunting Season Successful So Far | Jackson Hole Radio

Hunters are finding early success in the first year of a new mountain goat hunting season that was created on the west side of the Teton Range to relieve competition between the non-native goats and a struggling native bighorn sheep herd there. To date, a total of 15 mountain goats have been...

jacksonholeradio.com

Right, I believe the goat areas for the draw hunt were the west side/south side of the Tetons, whereas the culling that is to happen next week borders Jackson Lake. Does anyone know what happens after the helicopter shoot? I assume the animals are left where they lay?

I think it was goat area 1 that was in discussion for an unlimited area hunt, up against the MT border.

 

[MT_Local]

Saw some pictures floating around of some real trophy class goats from those hunts...unbelievable what happens on these type of hunts.

Would be interesting when the harvest reports come out on that hunt - how hunters/days per hunter and success rates. Wild, wild country.

 

[BigHornRam]

There was talk about some of these areas being unlimited but they ended up going with liberal hunter numbers and not making them a once in a lifetime tag.

 

[BuzzH]

No different than the cow elk hunts you do, Buzz. Population reduction hunts are not about trophies.

Let's get a couple things straight, it's not a population reduction hunt, it's a population elimination slaughter. Cow elk hunts are conducted to control populations not eliminate a population. Mountain goats are 100 percent a trophy species, with perhaps a very rare subsistence argument in remote places in Alaska. Name one person you know in the lower 48 that applies for a goat tag for the meat or subsistence value.

Your comparison is a joke.