Delw
Member
I belive I was speaking about the 90% in the puyallup river thread I was talking about back in 1980.. and yes low estimates said 90%
Delw
Delw
Idaho town pleads for salmon season
- Thread starter BuzzH
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Delw, I also said I'd give you latitude on that comment in WA...but these threads are about the SNAKE and COLUMBIA.
I'm not refuting your info on the river in WA, in fact I believe you...but thats meaningless information for the Columbia/Snake problems.
I'm not refuting your info on the river in WA, in fact I believe you...but thats meaningless information for the Columbia/Snake problems.
Ithaca 37
New member
I, too, believe the dams will eventually come down. The facts are in, the science is in, anyone who studies the issue can see where the problem is, many people are educated enough about it so they're not distracted by all the minor issues like Indians and sea lions. The main problem has been identified and the truth is a hard thing to keep denying. Eventually the truth usually wins. In this case the truth is that the Snake River dams are far more trouble than they're worth, and they're holding back a huge and lucrative resource.
And on top of all that, breaching the dams is the right thing to do.
And on top of all that, breaching the dams is the right thing to do.
Delw
Member
Yeah when I first saw the threads about the salmon I was lead to believe you guys were talking about the whole areas decline....
(Kinda like the heat of the argument so to speak and you were hot
)
Back in the 80s and late 70's the columbia did have a major problem with indians gill netting...
but since 1983(from what I have been reading so far ) that was supposed to be stopped hence the big jump in the 90s for salmon on the columbia.........
Now I am understanding more about the situation past boniville damn more into the snake river and its drainage's...
One thing I dont like about most of the articles I have read on the internet is that they always say salmon have to pass 200+ dams to spawn.... You and I know for a fact that is false... From the maps the most dams I could see for salmon getting up to a point in the blue mountains was 4.. and back to idaho was 5.. maps on the net suck..
But basically for a clear water salmon or steel head to get to spawn it takes 5 or 6 damns correct? not 200..
The 200 is meaning on all the little tributaries combined including all small earthen dams 5 feet or higher....
The cowlitz has a earthened dam over 10 feet (i think its 15) and I have seen them clear it with no problem.... what I would like to find is a the number of dams on the river system over 30 feet... Thirty feet and below with a fish ladder has great success and you dont have to worry about nitrogen levels and or O/2 Levels.....(cowlitz river is an excellent example for one under thirty feet)
I will keep looking.... That partial dam picture has some very good possibilities to keep both sides happy. I dont know how structually it would be.. but its and interesting concept
Delw
(Kinda like the heat of the argument so to speak and you were hot
Back in the 80s and late 70's the columbia did have a major problem with indians gill netting...
but since 1983(from what I have been reading so far ) that was supposed to be stopped hence the big jump in the 90s for salmon on the columbia.........
Now I am understanding more about the situation past boniville damn more into the snake river and its drainage's...
One thing I dont like about most of the articles I have read on the internet is that they always say salmon have to pass 200+ dams to spawn.... You and I know for a fact that is false... From the maps the most dams I could see for salmon getting up to a point in the blue mountains was 4.. and back to idaho was 5.. maps on the net suck..
But basically for a clear water salmon or steel head to get to spawn it takes 5 or 6 damns correct? not 200..
The 200 is meaning on all the little tributaries combined including all small earthen dams 5 feet or higher....
The cowlitz has a earthened dam over 10 feet (i think its 15) and I have seen them clear it with no problem.... what I would like to find is a the number of dams on the river system over 30 feet... Thirty feet and below with a fish ladder has great success and you dont have to worry about nitrogen levels and or O/2 Levels.....(cowlitz river is an excellent example for one under thirty feet)
I will keep looking.... That partial dam picture has some very good possibilities to keep both sides happy. I dont know how structually it would be.. but its and interesting concept
Delw
JoseCuervo
New member
Del,
I am not sure how you count how many dams. On the Snake, I believe there are the 9 you mentioned, and then there is Hells Canyon, Oxbow and Brownlee that do not allow any Salmon past. ZERO!!!
IF somehow they got past those 3 (and the original power plant licenses included provisions for fish getting around them). Then you have more dams on the Snake and the Boise Rivers, the Ohwyee and the other tribs.
And I don't think anybody is talking about Hell's Canyon being breached, or the other dams in the Canyon. I think we just want the ones on the lower Snake, that offer ZERO benefit to anybody's economy.
You mention the Cowlitz fish clearing a 10 foot dam. I have sat below Hells Canyon dam, and watched Salmon try and jump the 100' dam.
It is kind of sad, to see these guys being driven by some primal compass, to get past that huge block of cement, to get home, and to fail.
FWIW,
er
I am not sure how you count how many dams. On the Snake, I believe there are the 9 you mentioned, and then there is Hells Canyon, Oxbow and Brownlee that do not allow any Salmon past. ZERO!!!
IF somehow they got past those 3 (and the original power plant licenses included provisions for fish getting around them). Then you have more dams on the Snake and the Boise Rivers, the Ohwyee and the other tribs.
And I don't think anybody is talking about Hell's Canyon being breached, or the other dams in the Canyon. I think we just want the ones on the lower Snake, that offer ZERO benefit to anybody's economy.
You mention the Cowlitz fish clearing a 10 foot dam. I have sat below Hells Canyon dam, and watched Salmon try and jump the 100' dam.
FWIW,
Cameron Hunt
New member
Here is a good one. What do you think of the littigation in Skagit valley? Or do you know about it? The Tribe wants all farming stopped within 100' of (any) water way. That would be any ditch stream canal river or lake. Who says the indians are not GREEDY.. And who counts the run numbers to determan how many fish the indians can net? is there a fairy fish counter there?
Delw
Member
Camerron.... the people who count the fish are the same people who count votes and do polls... there on both sides and only use info to benifit themself.... there is no truth in numbers when it comes to someones personal interest....
If that law passed you guys would have to move to east of yakima washington to be able to farm... skagit county has a little creek running everywhere.....
Elkgunner
on a few posts and a couple of web pages I saw up to 200 damns being mentioned...
on the maps Ive seen as many at 20 but all being in different areas .... I will find some maps somewhere....
Delw
If that law passed you guys would have to move to east of yakima washington to be able to farm... skagit county has a little creek running everywhere.....
Elkgunner
on a few posts and a couple of web pages I saw up to 200 damns being mentioned...
on the maps Ive seen as many at 20 but all being in different areas .... I will find some maps somewhere....
Delw
BuzzH
Well-known member
Lets see if I can remember this from memory...the dams are (I know theres 8) for salmon to get to Idaho:
Bonneville, John Day, McNary, Ice Harbor, Little Goose, Lower Granite, Lower Monumental, and....Christ my memory sucks, cant think of the other one.
Delw, theres 211 dams on the Columbia River drainage.
Oh, and on those fish counters, all the dams on the Columbia and Snake have employees that watch the ladders and count fish...its open for the public as well. Thats how they determine run numbers, I cant think of a better way.
Bonneville, John Day, McNary, Ice Harbor, Little Goose, Lower Granite, Lower Monumental, and....Christ my memory sucks, cant think of the other one.
Delw, theres 211 dams on the Columbia River drainage.
Oh, and on those fish counters, all the dams on the Columbia and Snake have employees that watch the ladders and count fish...its open for the public as well. Thats how they determine run numbers, I cant think of a better way.
Ithaca 37
New member
Here's the answers to all the myths about gill nets, breaching dams (including pictures of what a breached dam will look like), electricity costs, port of Lewiston, and just about everything else we've been discussing. This is worth taking a look at!
http://www.idahorivers.org/salmonfaq.html
http://www.idahorivers.org/salmonfaq.html
Ten Bears
New member
When others say something it's a myth, but when IT says something it's a FACT.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-14-2003 10:15: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 05-14-2003 10:15: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>
