Hunting MOOSE.........

Moosie

Grand poopa
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Dec 9, 2000
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Boise, Idaho
Who should this get addresed TO?!?!?!?!

A buddy of Mine wrote this AND sent it to fish ang game ant the District Whoevers but I would like to see it get into the right hands.... I for one would like to do a FLOAT trip for Moose but do not want to pay the fees.

No disrespect to Any Guides and Outfitters up there but.....

I've actually personally talked to guides that actually opose it.... Hummm Who is backing it then?!?!?
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January 26, 2001

Alaska Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802

Re: Non-resident moose hunting

Dear Fish and Game Department:

I am writing to voice my OPPOSITION to proposed regulation changes that would require non-residents to hire a professional guide to hunt moose in the state of Alaska.

It is my understanding that wildlife existing on public land belongs to everybody, not to any one private individual, business, corporation, or even the states Fish and Game Department. For this reason, I feel it is not only unethical and unreasonable to require someone to hire a private individual or company to hunt public wildlife on public lands, but it should also be illegal.

I have heard the feeble arguments by those in support of such regulations, and I am convinced that by implementing and enforcing other less drastic regulations most of these problems could be solved.

The real reason certain groups or individuals are pushing for these changes is far less noble than protection of wildlife or hunters, it all about money. The Professional Guides and Outfitters and certain Native Americans tribes stand to make a lot of money off a public resource if the proposed regulations are implemented.

I know many non-resident hunters who have come to your state and made safe, ethical moose hunts without the use of a professional guide. It is wrong to punish every non-resident for the mistakes of a few.

By adopting this regulation, you would be buying into the erroneous idea that professional guides are more ethical than non-guided hunters. It has been my personal experience that professional guides break just as many or more game regulations than the general public. If you want to improve hunting ethics, maybe you should consider outlawing professional guides.

In addition, the proposed regulations would eliminate all but the wealthy from hunting moose in the state of Alaska. It would be a travesty to implement regulations that would make a public resource unavailable to the majority of Americans. This is supposed to be a free country where every person regardless of his financial status, should have reasonable access to public resources. You have already made this mistake with grizzly bears and sheep please don’t repeat it with moose.

Sincerely,

W.S., P.E


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<LI> AKA Moose Hunter
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Thumper

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Dec 15, 2000
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Location
Aksai, Kazakhstan via Covington Louisiana
Well written Osc! (notice ya used the spell checker)
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It is nice to know that a few of us from the lower 48 can hunt something in Alaska without a guide! So far, we can hunt Bou's black bear and moose!

From doing an unguided drop camp for bou was an excellent experience for me!
Alaska guided moose are going from $6000 up to $7500, just think what they could charge if that is passed!

I decided to book on Brownies for 2002 as it seems that everyone is going up $500 to $1000
per hunt per year for the upcoming 3 years. I want to do this while I can still afford to!

Still I am in search for a top notch coastal brown bear hunt! We are looking at $8500 on the low side up to $12000 on the high!
Man, I want it bad, but I just think of all the other critters I can hunt anywhere in the world for that price!!



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IF YA CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DAWGS, KEEP YOUR ARSE ON THE PORCH

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AlleninAlaska

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Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
26
Location
Bethel, Alaska 99559
Moosie, that should be sent to the Board of Game. They are the ones who make hunting regulations in Alaska. But it may be too late to get it in. They do have cutoff dates for public comment on specific proposals. Go too the State of Alaska home page and try to find the Board of Game address.

www.st.ak.us or www.ak.st.us don't know which for sure.

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Allen
 

Sparkman375

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Joined
Jan 10, 2001
Messages
27
Location
Minnesota
Awww, shitinzee! I didnt even know this was being considered. Thanx for the heads-up...its off to the AK website I go. Can any one shed light on how this is going and when it would be implemented?
I'm in Fairbanks this Sept., NO guide, no outfitter, and gunning for the non-resident moose! This does NOT make me happy....Sparkman
 

Ray Alaska

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Joined
Dec 26, 2000
Messages
20
As you can see in an e-amil sent to me, The Alaska Outdoors Counsel opposes the proposal. Anu e-mail, letter, etc. could be directed the The Board Of Game. I don't know their address, but F&G may have it.

Here is part of the e-mail sent to me:

"At its last Board of Directors meeting, the Alaska Outdoor Council voted to oppose Proposition 114, a proposition that would restrict out of state hunters (the same proposal that you are referring to below). As you may know, the propsition will be discussed at the Spring Board of Game meeting and the Alaska Outdoor Council will have a specialist on hand to testify before the Board on our opposition."

Ray
 

redbarron

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Joined
Feb 5, 2001
Messages
1
Location
Wasilla Alaska USA
Hello Everyone,

After reading all the postings I see that there is a lot of mis-information out there. I am a Master Guide here in Alaska
who takes both guided and unguided hunters for moose. People should resarch the facts a little better.
#1 Fish and Wildlife Protection aka the game wardens, are the strongest force pushing to impliment this due to the enforcement problem of wasted meat.
#2 The Natives are the second most powerfull
group pushing for this, moose are an important part of most interior natives diet and there are very few native guides in business of guiding.
#3 The Wildlife Alliance(a serious anti hunting organization) has jumped on the bandwagon,and I am sure they see this as another opportunity to eliminate more hunters.
#4 There is not another Guide that I have talked to that is for propasal #114 it puts us in the same boat with everyone trying to draw a permit for our moose hunters.
#5 Only the legislature NOT the board of game
can pass a Guide requirement for moose.
#6 The Vice Chair of the BOG Greg Roczicka has said that he wants to use this proposal as a club to force the legislature to pass a guide requirement.
#7 Yes,There is a group of guides up here that are activly persuing getting a guide requirement passed, wouldn't you, if the Air Taxis were killing all the moose in your area with no reguard for the future of hunting moose in that area.
#8 And finally to those who think all guides will get wealthy if the legislature passes a
guide requirement, you need to stand in our shoes and look around, the difference between guided and unguided is like comparing apples to oranges. The hunter who would pay $2500.00 for a moose hunt, I doubt is in the same finantial class as the hunter who will spend $8000.00 I realy don't think that they are going to be beating my door down to give me a $2500.00 DEPOSIT on a high dollar moose hunt.I stand to loose the income from the ability to book drop camp moose hunts which are a small but important part of my income.
This proposal is aimed at the Air Taxi Operators who have no acountability for the numbers of hunters that they take into an area or statewide.They have become very effective at reducing moose populations in certain easily accesable areas.
As a guide I am limited to the areas I can hunt and if I take too many moose in an area I won't have any the next year to hunt,I am forced to be a farmer. I also am accountable
for all the meat that is retrievied from the field,in esence I am under a set of LAWS that hold me accountable. Air Taxis have no accountability and that is the heart of this whole problem.
I hope this sheds a little light on what is realy going on up here.

Take Care Everyone Redbarron
 

Moosie

Grand poopa
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
17,654
Location
Boise, Idaho
Red BARON, Welocme Aboard!!!! It's good to get some "INSIDE SCOOP" from the "IN"
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There al always at least two sides to the issues and you are sure correct with your Class assessment of 2,500 or $8K For I know I'm not in the same group as them
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Anyways I wanted to welcome you t the Site and Hope you swing by a few other topics aswell. We have some good guys here (ANd GAls too
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Any questions fire them away....

-Mooise

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<LI> AKA Moose Hunter
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hntrjohn

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Dec 10, 2000
Messages
382
Location
California, or Texas
Thanks Red Baron for posting the facts.
I would have to save up alotof years to be able to go on a $8000 moose hunt.
I do believe there are people out there not taking all their meat from the field, after they realize how big the animal is. Is there a law that states you have to take all the meat out first before the cape and antlers?

John

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Cliff Burton
 
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bcat

Guest
Red baron-Welcome to moosies forum!!! Good to talk to ya last night on the phone. You seem to be in the same mindset as me and have alot of the same intrests including rodeo!!! Thanks for your contribution to this subject of guides for moose hunters in Alaska. I believe that the folks up there know way more about it than I do, so let you guys decide. Hope we can get it all set up for some hunts together in 2002. Dont forget to drop by some of the other forums and throw your two cents worth in!!!
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bcat

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huntn bum

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Feb 7, 2001
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Idaho
OK Moosie you finally drew me in. Hi guy's I'm the guy that wrote the letter to the Alaska Board of Game that "Moosie" posted. I also happen to be his next door neighbor and occasional hunting buddy.I think I'm even in a few of the pictures He has posted. Well introductions aside, I wanted to say that I'm grateful for the feed back on the letter both pro and con.

There are a couple of points brought up that if would like to comment on however. If wasted game is a problem, maybe more jail time and some bigger fines for the offenders might be a more appropriate and fair solution. This would punish the guilty without hurting all the rest. Second, if the air services are causing problems maybe some new rules or restrictions on them, not the hunters might be in order.

In the posts someone (I think Redbaron) brought up that it would be the Alaska Legislature that would decide one way or the other on this issue. I wondered if that would be the case. If this is true, then the issue would first have to go through the House and Senate committees which oversee the State's Fish and Game Department. If it passes the committees then it would go to the full House and Senate for a vote. I would like to know if this issue has passed the committee stage yet. If not, dose anybody know who the House and Senate Committee Chairmen are that oversee the Fish and Game Department. I would also like to write them a letter. Please let me know if you have any info.

I realize that some of you that post on this site are Guides and/or Outfitters and I apologize if I offended you. However, I feel very strongly that hiring a guide should be a personal choice and not a mandated one.
 
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bcat

Guest
Hunting Bum-You havent offended me and I believe the same as you , the use of guides should be a person decision and not a mandate!! Although I think you are wrong about the Alaska thing!!! I am not from Alaska and I want an Alaskan Moose myself, and will get one provbably in 2002. I dont need a guide to do it myself as i am capable of doing it. Making stiffer penalties is fine but ya have to catch the law breakers first. This is the problem! Alaska is such a big country and there just inst enuff manpower to enforce the game laws. Stiffening the fines just wont work. Sure they will catch a few and always do, but they dont catch very many of them, its just too big and vast. The making of more rules are fine even for the air taxi's but ya have to be able to enforce them or it doesnt do a thing, only make more paperwork, in the form of new laws that cant be enforced anyway! Kinda like the gun laws!!! Only worse!! bcat

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Coyote Slayer

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Joined
Jan 17, 2001
Messages
15
Location
Alaska
Hay all
to answer a few questions yes there is a law that all meat must be retreaved before the horns and cape. I have lived here for 20 years and work more with wolves and coytes but live off of big game. Another problem is that moast areas now have horn size most are 50 inches 4 brow tines or spike fork or 50 inches and 3 brow tines not all but some shoot a less then 50 inch bull and rather than loosing there guns and pay fines just walk away and leave the whole thing to rot or shoot a large bull to far away from an air field or in a swamp and relize that what a job it will be to get it out and the meat goes bad while they are trying to cope with the problem.this is a mixed issue with most of us that live here.Well have a good one and there is my two cents on the subjuct:Coyote Slayer
 

Chan2552

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Dec 25, 2002
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Hawaii and Alaska
For those of you that have never lived in AK. Let me tell you, the land can be bountiful and can be very very harsh. Thousands and thousands of dollars are spent each year trying to locate those would be hunters that believe that they can get around in the wilderness w/out a guide. Yes there are those of you that CAN find their way out of a paper bag but there are many that cant. I for one have lost several friends to the elements in AK. and Im sure I will loose more. The state is just looking out for the best interest of our valued visitors and hunters. Alaska is not looking for your CASH, they have the oild revenue to do that.
 

schmalts

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Aug 22, 2002
Messages
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Location
WI
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by redbarron:
Hello Everyone,

#7 Yes,There is a group of guides up here that are activly persuing getting a guide requirement passed, wouldn't you, if the Air Taxis were killing all the moose in your area with no reguard for the future of hunting moose in that area.
Take Care Everyone Redbarron
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All right , i will jump right in here with some heat. Redbarron, you are the worst thing hunting has going for us all. You proved in your statement that you are a private land squatter. "Your Area" that is being invaded is public land buddy, dont forget it. if you dont like it buy some private land to call your own and get the hell out of "our" land that we all own.......
If you think too many moose are being killed in "USA's" area, talk to the F&G and tell them they need to make it a draw area. Yes you would have less chances of getting tags for your clients but thats the drawback of hunting PUBLIC land . Your statement maybe was put out a little biased but you sound like guides i have met in the field from USO's elk camps. Sorry if i offend you but anyone calling public land thier area pisses me off.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-27-2002 08:48: Message edited by: schmalts ]</font>
 

Erik in AK

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Mar 28, 2002
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not killing a ram
Schmalts, what I think RedBaron meant (but forgot to explain) was that the term "my area" is his assigned area. Guides in AK can't operate any place they choose. They have to qualify for an area through some pretty tough and detailed testing and then get on a waiting list for an opening.

Although its an all too common attitude amongst guides...I don't think he meant "my area" as in "its mine mine all mine stay the hell out" mine.

But I do tend to agree with you in so far as if you choose to take your chances making a living off of a public resource on public land you accept the possibility that you may have to share with the public.
 

Alasken

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Mar 23, 2001
Messages
99
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Alaska
There has been so much bad information about this for a long time. Redbarron has accurately stated a lot of the facts though.
There have been two bills presented in the legislature in the last five years to include moose in the guide required list of animals that are hunted up here. Both times the bill didn't make it out of sub-committee. The legislature is the body who can pass such a law though.
Why did the bills die? Because the State of Alaska doesn't give a crap about guides and the guiding industry, even though about 95% of the total F&G revenue comes from non-resident licenses and tags. I now some of you guys might find this hard to believe, but it's true.
Now some food for thought. There are three classes of hunters in Alaska. Subsistence hunters, Alaska residents, and non-residents. If seasons are changed/closed who do you think is going to be affected first? The non-residents, followed by the residents. If you look at what has happpened up here in the last few years you'll see what I'm talking about. Just last year Game Management Unit 16 went to subsistence only and GMU got changed to exclude non-residents. In both cases it was pressure from the natives that changed the regulations along with declining moose populations. According to the Alaska Constitution the fish and game in Alaska belong to Alaskans, not Americans
I don't see the law ever changing to require a guide for moose mostly because the guides don't have enough political clout, but I do think we are seeing the beginning of the end of non-resident moose hunting in Alaska. Moose populations are down statewide, with some areas worse than others.
My advise to anyone who wants to hunt moose up here is to do it as soon as you can. If you wait too long the opportunity will be gone.
Ken
 
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