Hunt lead free SD

[jryoung]

Ventana Wildlife Society in CA does this. In the past I was able to get a box of loaded ammo, then they began to offer components and I got two boxes of Barnes TTSX bullets.

 

[oxn939]

Are the sharp copper particles more beneficial to their digestive system?

Is copper no longer considered a heavy metal?

I shoot behind the shoulder through the heart. I dont eat bloodshot meat so getting lead in my meat is not possible.

Copper passes harmlessly through the digestive systems of pretty much all mammals. This is simple chemistry- the acid of the human (and raptor) stomach is not strong enough to dissolve copper. Additionally, lead breaks down into thousands of microfragments that increase its surface area (read: absorption) by hundreds of times more than copper. So, while copper is a metal, it is virtually harmless. Lead, of course, is the opposite.

Even if you are able to shoot your animals perfectly through the vitals 100% of the time, lead microfragments can travel 18 inches or more from the permanent wound cavity. So, essentially, the only way to ensure you're not eating lead would be to waste the entire front half of the animal.

I strongly oppose forcing people to do anything, and there are still some applications where lead is useful such as antique muzzleloaders shooting patched round balls. But if we're being honest, there is no advantage to using lead in modern centerfire rifles. Copper ammo is more reliable and effective, and all lead does is introduce carcinogens to the ecosystem and your family.

 

[Wyoming270]

Copper passes harmlessly through the digestive systems of pretty much all mammals. This is simple chemistry- the acid of the human (and raptor) stomach is not strong enough to dissolve copper. Additionally, lead breaks down into thousands of microfragments that increase its surface area (read: absorption) by hundreds of times more than copper. So, while copper is a metal, it is virtually harmless. Lead, of course, is the opposite.

Even if you are able to shoot your animals perfectly through the vitals 100% of the time, lead microfragments can travel 18 inches or more from the permanent wound cavity. So, essentially, the only way to ensure you're not eating lead would be to waste the entire front half of the animal.

I strongly oppose forcing people to do anything, and there are still some applications where lead is useful such as antique muzzleloaders shooting patched round balls. But if we're being honest, there is no advantage to using lead in modern centerfire rifles. Copper ammo is more reliable and effective, and all lead does is introduce carcinogens to the ecosystem and your family.

The medical world considers copper to be far less inert than you seem to.

Copper Toxicity - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[NoWiser]

A few years ago I had someone from the local raptor center out when a sick owl showed up on our lawn. It was late fall and, while I don’t think it had anything to do with the owl, she said they can’t keep up the few weeks during and shortly after deer season due to all the sick birds from the gut piles. When I mentioned that I switched to copper years ago, she couldn’t stop thanking me.

 

[Wyoming270]

A few years ago I had someone from the local raptor center out when a sick owl showed up on our lawn. It was late fall and, while I don’t think it had anything to do with the owl, she said they can’t keep up the few weeks during and shortly after deer season due to all the sick birds from the gut piles. When I mentioned that I switched to copper years ago, she couldn’t stop thanking me.

Do they do labratory testing for lead poisoning, or simply assume eveyone is gut shooting the animals and the bullets dont pass through the animal?

 

[NoWiser]

I think the symptoms of lead poisoning are fairly obvious to those who deal with sick raptors on a daily basis. I really don’t think she had any reason to lie to me.

 

[jryoung]

Do they do labratory testing for lead poisoning, or simply assume eveyone is gut shooting the animals and the bullets dont pass through the animal?

Yes, it's a pretty easy test then they administer a chelating agent like EDTA.

 

[BenP]

The medical world considers copper to be far less inert than you seem to.

Copper Toxicity - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Compared to lead...

Lead Toxicity - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

I think you should have "California Prop65" in your l signature

Water is toxic in excessive amounts.

 

[BenP]

Do they do labratory testing for lead poisoning, or simply assume eveyone is gut shooting the animals and the bullets dont pass through the animal?

Also the NIH has other articles that deal very specific to this issue.

Unleaded hunting: Are copper bullets and lead-based bullets equally effective for killing big game? - PMC

Semi-jacketed lead-cored or copper-based homogenous rifle bullets are commonly used for hunting big game. Ever since their introduction in the 1990’s, copper-based bullets have not been widely accepted by hunters due to limited supply, higher ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[oxn939]

I think the symptoms of lead poisoning are fairly obvious to those who deal with sick raptors on a daily basis

Or to those who argue with the "lead or nothing" types on internet forums

The medical world considers copper to be far less inert than you seem to.

Copper Toxicity - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Make you a deal. I'll get us two identical burgers. You add a gram of lead dust to yours, I'll add a gram of copper to mine. You down? I'll even throw in a hundred bucks if you finish it.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

Disagree it’s just another way for anti’s to start the process of completely banning hunting at some point. 20 years down the line they’re gonna blame copper bullets for killing condors or giving you some kind of chemical poisoning. If anyone is getting lead poisoning from shooting bullets there doing something horribly wrong.
Matt

 

[slatebuilder]

Who is funding these non lead ammo programs? And why are these programs being put forth? Those two questions are more important than debating copper versus lead or telling stories about copper kills.

 

[mtmuley]

Disagree it’s just another way for anti’s to start the process of completely banning hunting at some point. 20 years down the line they’re gonna blame copper bullets for killing condors or giving you some kind of chemical poisoning. If anyone is getting lead poisoning from shooting bullets there doing something horribly wrong.
Matt

Hey. Don't forget wolves. That's why they are where they are. To end hunting. Just like banning lead. mtmuley

 

[IDiot]

I haven't tried non-toxic rifle ammo yet. I'd definitely take a free box of ammo and give it a go. Non lead seem like a logical progression, we don't use lead pipes, lead paint or leaded gasoline anymore. I'm not in favor of mandating it broadly though. Condor recovery areas make sense, where an individual bird represents a significant part of the population.

 

[Wyoming270]

Copper passes harmlessly through the digestive systems of pretty much all mammals. This is simple chemistry- the acid of the human (and raptor) stomach is not strong enough to dissolve copper. Additionally, lead breaks down into thousands of microfragments that increase its surface area (read: absorption) by hundreds of times more than copper. So, while copper is a metal, it is virtually harmless. Lead, of course, is the opposite.

Even if you are able to shoot your animals perfectly through the vitals 100% of the time, lead microfragments can travel 18 inches or more from the permanent wound cavity. So, essentially, the only way to ensure you're not eating lead would be to waste the entire front half of the animal.

I strongly oppose forcing people to do anything, and there are still some applications where lead is useful such as antique muzzleloaders shooting patched round balls. But if we're being honest, there is no advantage to using lead in modern centerfire rifles. Copper ammo is more reliable and effective, and all lead does is introduce carcinogens to the ecosystem and your family.

What makes copper ammunition more reliable? What is reliability? Ive yet to see anything in north america that does not die when i shoot heart or lungs with a 200 grain speer hotcor from my 300 win mag. Is this some super secret unreliability that happens every time i kill but i simply am too busy looking at a dead animal to know my lead bullet was unreliable?

 

[Wyoming270]

Or to those who argue with the "lead or nothing" types on internet forums



Make you a deal. I'll get us two identical burgers. You add a gram of lead dust to yours, I'll add a gram of copper to mine. You down? I'll even throw in a hundred bucks if you finish it.

Why dont you just eat the bullet?

 

[mtmiller]

Who is funding these non lead ammo programs? And why are these programs being put forth? Those two questions are more important than debating copper versus lead or telling stories about copper kills.

Information and science have never been so easily accessible to those interested. That being said, some people aren't that interested to be informed.

 

[Wyoming270]

Wyoming has something similar. I've taken up their offer a few times. I think its a pretty neat program. We got offers again this year, but I feel slightly guilty cashing in for 8 boxes of ammo (four of us with qualifying licenses), when I like to shoot leaded bullets.
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You guys ever think maybe its anti hunt liberals wanting your personal data? seems like a way to bait people in for me. For the $30 a box of 100 i pay for lead hornady interlock bullets i think id rather pay for them than have an unknown organization with unkown intentions have my personal data.

 

[Wyoming270]

So do you take the WHOLE carcass from the field and bury what you don't consume? Think not. The lethality to raptors is in the fine lead particulates that remain in the gut pile. These minute particles build up in the birds and eventually it is lethal. It is not the same as consuming the bird shot from the thousands of ducks you have consumed over the years. I would like to just kill my target animal rather than additional unknown species.

Id bet we get way more lead in the body from eating ducks than big game meat. Drink milk.

 

[Hams42]

I started my copper journey when I got a $50 voucher to Hammer bullets a few years back when applying to hunt on a ranch. I didn't do much with those bullets when I bought them. Fast forward a couple years and i eneded up with an 18" 308. I wanted a bullet that could perform out to 500 yards. I was not able to do this with any lead bullet I tried. Got some Hammers and talked to some true gems of individuals that helped me get an awesome load with the hammer bullets. Then this year I switched all of my hunting rigs over to copper. I like the way they group and the way they perform.

I am not worried about lead consumption from eating wild game. From what I have learned I am more likely to get higher lead levels from reloading and dealing with spent primers than I am from eating meat from an animal shot with lead bullets.

However I did not even remotely have the amount of blood shot that I normally did with lead bullets.

To each there own but I will continue hunting with copper and using lead in my range guns. If copper helps some other animals then thats just an added perk.