Home Heating Questions

[tmcdowell]

Well I just got our December NG/electric bill from NW Energy, and all I can say is "ouch." Sure, it was a cold month, and sure, I do live in an old home that most likely has crappy insulation and one insanely inefficient gas stove. But energy bills like this definitely hurt financially.

I've only recently started considering what it would take to improve our heating situation, and I'm giving it more thought now after the aforementioned bill. My wife and I bought this home a couple years ago. We are first-time homeowners and have spent most of our nest egg on this home and the subsequent children we've had (our second due to arrive any day now...). We haven't really had the budget to do major updates to our heating, but I think we ought to make it a priority in the next couple years in hopes of earning back that investment in lower energy bills.

First of all, for those who have heat pumps with the mini-splits - how would you recommend those as opposed to a furnace/forced air? We've heard from a professional HVAC tech that our place would be challenging to install ductwork for a furnace, so I've mostly written that idea off. The heat pump, on the other hand, seems like it would be straightforward to install. For those who installed heat pumps into their homes to replace other heating sources, were there noticeable savings in your gas usage?

Secondly, does anyone have experience or recommendations for home heating rebates? I've recently looked at those that NW Energy offers, and I think I could probably leverage some rebates in adding insulation or installing a new, more efficient heat source. We live in MT, but I assume there must be federal rebate programs of a similar nature. Suggestions?

 

[rtraverdavis]

I’m far, far from an expert, but if you’re looking at staying in your home long-term, I would first invest in some new insulation. It is amazing the difference a properly insulated home makes. Our current house is fairly old (1940s era) and the insulation is basically sawdust and wishes. Consequently, it’s always extra cold in the winter, and extra hot in the summer. I can feel the hot or cold radiating through the ceiling. My brother and my parents both have newer homes in similar climates, and they have to use their ACs and heaters far, far less than we do.

If I were in your spot, and planning to stay in the home for 10 or more years, I’d be looking to replace the attic and sub-floor insulation first. But, again, I’m no expert so take that for what it’s worth.

Also, congratulations on the soon-to-come second kiddo.

 

[SAJ-99]

I would look to try to retain the heat you generate by installing more insulation. You should be able to look at your roof and see how much heat is leaking through. Insulation is probably most cost effective and gives biggest bang for Buck. Any federal incentives are typically in tax rules/deductions etc. Im not sure what is available.

 

[mdhunter]

I agree with the insulation investment thought. Also, I wouldn't blame the stove as the gas consumption there is so minimal upgrading it wont help.

 

[BuckRut]

Wood/pellet stove is a fairly cheap source of heat if the layout of the home is conducive to an easy install.

 

[warmer]

Building insulation and windows are your best bet for ROI. Without seeing your current setup, a high efficient(96%) gas furnace may help, but if you dont have duct, your SOL. Remember, you live in Montana, so there is a price to pay for that privilege.
Ductless mini-splits will get you ac and some heat, but you'll still need some type of back up heat source. Our minis will heat to -15F but the output drops off quickly after 5 above. So you'll need supplemental after that.

 

[rjthehunter]

Insulation is key. Have someone w/ thermal imaging look at the house and see where the heat is coming from. I'd add insulation to the attic this year, it's fairly inexpensive and can be done pretty easily.

Also check out your windows. Is it cold near the windows? I'm guessing this is a huge area of heat loss.

 

[Matt Dworak]

The others are on right on track. Attic insulation is definitely your first step. We blew in more attic insulation after living in our house for about 15 years. In hindsight I should have done it on day one, it paid for itself in the first year. Not sure where you’re located but Home Depot will comp the blower unit rental if you buy their insulation. I’d also recommend fiberglass insulation over cellulose, as it holds its loft better over time. Or, if you have insulation contractors nearby get some quotes. They will have to ability to suck out existing insulation and properly air seal which is worth doing.

I would improve your building envelope before looking to upgrade mechanical systems and windows would be the last thing I’d upgrade on your building envelope (insulation/air sealing first).

This could be a topic I’d get an “expert “ rating on. 15-yrs as a building systems engineer (running heating/cooling load calcs and the last 8-yrs as a builder/GC. And mainly I’m nerdy enough that I enjoy building science as a past time…

 

[tmcdowell]

Thanks for your input, everyone. Sounds like insulation is definitely the next thing I aim to improve. We have two attics, one of which is functionally inaccessible except through the gable vent. This is the attic over the original construction (built 1910), so I'm willing to bet the existing insulation is subpar.

During this recent cold spell we had a couple pipes freeze up in our crawlspace. I spent some time belly-crawling around there with a blow dryer in one hand and some heat tape in the other. Fortunately, I got all pipes thawed without them bursting, and in the process I learned that I need to better insulate that crawlspace. The pipes that froze are a couple inches from the foundation, and I could put my hand up there and feel the cold air seeping in.

 

[Dougfirtree]

You're on the right track. Heat pumps are miraculous, but can be frightfully expensive to run if the house isn't well insulated. Good luck!

 

[Elkmagnet]

They have you covered above pretty well.

To elaborate on the heat pumps and minis. I have installed a couple minis but am not an expert at all. I am a big fan of heat pump with a wood stove backup. My central heat pump is very efficient down to around 15. Then it becomes wildly inefficient as temps drop. Anything below 20 and we burn wood with the t stat set to 68 for when the fire goes out. Our home is over 2000sqft, luckily well insulated and the highest power bill I have ever received was $130. That's the only utility and includes the well and shop power.

The mini will be more efficient to a little lower temp because of the ductless configuration.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Insulation is key. Have someone w/ thermal imaging look at the house and see where the heat is coming from. I'd add insulation to the attic this year, it's fairly inexpensive and can be done pretty easily.

Also check out your windows. Is it cold near the windows? I'm guessing this is a huge area of heat loss.

I have a thermal and looking at my house on a cold night not only can I see the studs through the siding thermal bridging heat I can see each nail in them its like xray vision. pretty cool.

 

[Cattleman]

https://www.northwesternenergy.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/billing-and-payment/e-programs/mt-residential-natural-gas-insulation.pdf

https://www.northwesternenergy.com/billing-payment/ways-to-save/EnergyCheck

 

[Kaitum]

When I lived in Alaska the state had a home energy rebate program. As part of the program they conduct an energy audit, gave you some options on where to improve energy efficiency, and then conducted a post-improvement audit after you made your upgrades / fixes. Your rebate depended on how much you improved your home's energy rating. It really was a great program. Anywho, of all the upgrades I had done (new higher efficiency furnace, new insulated garage doors, etc), adding insulation to my attic had the biggest impact (and was the cheapest item as well). Others have mentioned it, but don't overlook the simple things.

 

[SAJ-99]

Thanks for your input, everyone. Sounds like insulation is definitely the next thing I aim to improve. We have two attics, one of which is functionally inaccessible except through the gable vent. This is the attic over the original construction (built 1910), so I'm willing to bet the existing insulation is subpar.

During this recent cold spell we had a couple pipes freeze up in our crawlspace. I spent some time belly-crawling around there with a blow dryer in one hand and some heat tape in the other. Fortunately, I got all pipes thawed without them bursting, and in the process I learned that I need to better insulate that crawlspace. The pipes that froze are a couple inches from the foundation, and I could put my hand up there and feel the cold air seeping in.

Keep in mind that in some areas,
Crawl spaces are well ventilated to keep them dry. Moisture can be a problem at other times of year.

 

[thomas89]

This year I put those cheap plastic shrink wrap insulation kits on our windows and it seems to make a world of difference. Last year we had literal ice buildup at the bottom of the cheap builders series vinyl windows, this year a bit of condensation only on the coldest days.

 

[JEL]

I would do a couple things to start. An energy audit is free through NW believe. We did one of those when we moved into our current house even though it is only 16 years old. Budget billing is another. You get the same bill each month which helps with well, budgeting.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I did insulation upgrades when both the electric company and the gas company were running overlapping rebates. I did the work myself and it paid for itself in a couple years. Insulated 2 remaining walls in my basement and put an extra layer of attic insulation in. It may be worth a call to your utilities to see if they have any rebate promotions in the works for upcoming years.

 

[millerkiller77]

Building insulation and windows are your best bet for ROI. Without seeing your current setup, a high efficient(96%) gas furnace may help, but if you dont have duct, your SOL. Remember, you live in Montana, so there is a price to pay for that privilege.
Ductless mini-splits will get you ac and some heat, but you'll still need some type of back up heat source. Our minis will heat to -15F but the output drops off quickly after 5 above. So you'll need supplemental after that.

User name checks out

 

[warmer]

User name checks out

40 years in the business. hope that means something