Hire an outfitter or not?

[npaden]

Okay, I still don’t know if we drew a 13B Arizona Strip tag, a 12AW late Kaibab tag or a 12AE early Kaibab tag.

It’s about 5 times more likely that it is the 12AE early tag.

If we drew the 13B or 12AW late tag I’m almost certain that I’m going to hire an outfitter. Those are just too good of tags and the chance to shoot a once in a lifetime buck are just too high for me to try to DIY it with the time my son or I would have to scout and hunt the tag.

12AE early is a different story. Everything I’m reading says that shooting a giant buck on the early tag is unlikely even with an outfitter. It can be done, and the odds probably are higher with an outfitter than DIY but it almost sounds like a guy could luck into a good buck DIY or with a guide. Sounds like getting a buck isn’t the issue (although I’ve watched Randy’s hunt again since getting the credit card hit), but getting the big one just isn’t that likely.

Done a lot of reading and talked to an outfitter and emailed a few more. The money really isn’t the issue, I can afford to go guided without that much difficulty financially. I prefer to DIY but this is an area I’ve never even stepped foot in so I would be way behind before the hunt even started. Sounds like the hunt gets better toward the end of the season so I would want to try to stick it out until then either way.

I have a 181” gross New Mexico mule deer on the wall so I would be trying to do better than that. It feels a little like it would be cheating if I hired a guide but I do think my chances of getting a better buck would possibly be worth it. If it is shooting a 170” buck with a guide and shooting a 160” buck DIY that wouldn’t be worth it. If it is shooting a 185” buck with a guide vs. a 165” buck DIY it probably would be.

I already have a very full fall and will be short on time off so that’s one reason that hiring a guide is tempting.

Oh well, not sure anyone can really help me with my choice or not. Any input or advice is appreciated.

Thanks, Nathan

 

[Nick87]

I wouldn't hire a guide personally unless its a logistics sort of thing or a species that I know I'm only going to hunt one time in my life. Doesn't mean you shouldn't though, that's just my personal preference. Good luck either way.

 

[kiwi hunter]

You'll run out of health before running out of money. Take the guide and get a 200. Best of luck.

 

[seeth07]

I wouldn't hire a guide personally unless its a logistics sort of thing or a species that I know I'm only going to hunt one time in my life. Doesn't mean you shouldn't though, that's just my personal preference. Good luck either way.

Agree with this. Yes it's a great tag and once in a lifetime you're experience but the measure of how you and your son rate the trip will not be anything about the exact inches of the buck. A 150 and 200 inch buck as a result will still result in the same memory 20 years from now as you two are telling the tale to your grand kid. I'm pretty sure the story will be way better if it's DIY rather than telling a story of following a guide around and listening to the radios with the 10 scouts they have helping

 

[npaden]

If I drew the 12AE early tag I would most likely be hunting it solo if I went DIY. This is my sons first year at college so I wouldn’t expect him to go on the hunt with me and miss a week of school if he doesn’t have a tag.

If he drew one of the late season tags it would be epic and worth him missing a week of college but the 12AW late tag would be over Thanksgiving break so he wouldn’t miss a full week anyway.

The 13B tag dates would actually be the worst for either of us but I’m sure we could figure it out for that tag. If I drew it I wouldn’t expect him to come with me on it either though.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Depends on your priorities. If its inches - your best off with a guide.

 

[TN2shot07]

For an average tag it wouldn’t be on the table but for something with the potential of a strip tag I’d do it. I wouldn’t have the time to scout and get boots on the ground before the hunt, might as well see if you can bring home one of those 190-200’s with some help.

 

[brushcreek]

if time is an issue and money is not I say go guided.

 

[cgasner1]

@MTGomer would be a good guy to ask he is on the az loop

 

[cgasner1]

I’d also add not all guides are the same. I’m a pretty hardcore public land diy guy. I hired one a couple years ago ago for my Audad hunt in New Mexico no regrets on that hunt it was great having him along and I still talk with him quite frequently amazing dude

 

[MTGomer]

Clay Bundy on the Strip and
Shadow Valley or AZ Custom hunts on the Kaibab.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

I drew a great AZ deer permit on the strip 20 years ago, went solo, did not kill a deer, and wouldn’t have changed a thing about my decision. I hunted the AZ strip, didn’t pay somebody to take me to shoot a deer.

That said, it might have been almost a wash cost-wise to hire somebody (for what I did) and the right guide would have short cut the process a ton. It really depends on what’s important to you about a special hunt like that.

 

[npaden]

Thanks for the input so far. It’s going about like I expected. For sure a personal decision and one that I’ve never had to really consider before.

Only outfitter I’ve ever used was in South Africa and that was a very good experience. About to use another in New Zealand and booked one for my sons Nevada antelope tag simply because of timing and the logistics of getting to and from the unit 21 hours one way drive from our house. We are doing it over Labor Day weekend and flying out there and hoping he will only miss one day of school.

I guess I might be getting lazy in my old age to even be considering hiring a guide for a mule deer hunt 12 hours away.

I did edit my poll and added another option so now if you don’t want to say I’m lame you can still vote no.

Thanks for the input, it does help me think through things.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with FBT, its really a personal choice.

But, some of these hunts if you put in a ton of time scouting, drive back and forth a few times, etc. etc. when you sharpen your pencil and do some math its almost cost effective to just hire a guide.

One of my best friends just hired a guide for his Colorado sheep hunt for that exact reason. He's retired, has the time and all but if he had to drive out and scout for a couple weeks, get a hotel, etc. etc. then come back and hunt, the math says he's not out much at all by hiring a guide.

Another thing to keep in mind though, is that just because you hire a guide doesn't mean the outcome of the hunt will be any different than if you did it yourself. Some of what you said is exactly why I wouldn't ever want to be a guide. When people pay money, they expect more inches of antler...and if that's the only motivation for hiring a guide, that's got potential to create friction that I wouldn't want.

Its still hunting and things don't always work out.

 

[npaden]

Agreed. Talking about inches does seem a bit icky. Really it would be more along the lines of hoping to shoot a mature deer vs. a 3 year old.

One of my personal best trophies is a whitetail buck that was aged by the lab with cementum annuli aging at 8 1/2 years old but he only scores 112”. Still a very cool buck.

 

[BuzzH]

Also, I've only ever been on one guided hunt and 2 hunts where I used a transporter...all were excellent and worth every penny. I tried as hard as I could to not put any pressure on the guides, just wanted to see some great country have a great experience and if things worked out, bag a representative animal.

Its not different than we fish AK every year, I really like catching fish, but we've had some great days, some average days, and some not so great days. I explain right up front that even the not great days beat the chit out of working. I've found the more at ease you can put the guides that they don't have to produce for you to have fun, keep your expectations realistic, the more fun that everyone can have. I've had to correct captains when they apologized for "only" 400-500 pounds/half a "box" of fish a day. To me, that is wayyyy better than my best day at work.

Its why my buddy Tom and I are still very close friends with our retired boat captain that we started fishing with 20 years ago...we never had a bad day fishing with Gary no matter the amount of fish in the box.

 

[BuzzH]

Agreed. Talking about inches does seem a bit icky. Really it would be more along the lines of hoping to shoot a mature deer vs. a 3 year old.

One of my personal best trophies is a whitetail buck that was aged by the lab with cementum annuli aging at 8 1/2 years old but he only scores 112”. Still a very cool buck.

Good luck and I think you'll make the right decision without "help" from the peanut gallery!

 

[npaden]

Agree with this. Yes it's a great tag and once in a lifetime you're experience but the measure of how you and your son rate the trip will not be anything about the exact inches of the buck. A 150 and 200 inch buck as a result will still result in the same memory 20 years from now as you two are telling the tale to your grand kid. I'm pretty sure the story will be way better if it's DIY rather than telling a story of following a guide around and listening to the radios with the 10 scouts they have helping

Circling back to this. It makes me lean more toward hiring a guide if I’m the one that drew, (since I would be hunting solo otherwise) and not hiring a guide if my son drew even though it would be a great tag if he drew.

I still might go guided if it is 13B but if it is the 12AW late tag that is probably a tag we could do some justice to hunting it on our own. Sure wish they would have posted to the portal on Friday so I didn’t have 4 different scenarios running through my head all weekend.

 

[CouesKelly]

I have hunted 13B 2x. Once on the rifle and once on the archery hunt. The strip is HUGE and the deer densities are low. You can go days on the strip and not even see a deer if you don't know where to look. If you or your son drew 13B you would be doing yourself a big disservice if you don't hire a guide who specializes in the strip and spends significant time scouting out there. There are no more cameras allowed out there and you have to scout boots on the ground glass in hand. Scouting for yourself is possible, but get ready to spend a ton of time and gas money making it happen.
The Kaibab is much more doable from an unguided perspective. The densities are higher and depending on the time of year the deer are in predictable areas. They migrate down throughout the fall.

 

[CouesKelly]

Okay, I still don’t know if we drew a 13B Arizona Strip tag, a 12AW late Kaibab tag or a 12AE early Kaibab tag.

It’s about 5 times more likely that it is the 12AE early tag.

If we drew the 13B or 12AW late tag I’m almost certain that I’m going to hire an outfitter. Those are just too good of tags and the chance to shoot a once in a lifetime buck are just too high for me to try to DIY it with the time my son or I would have to scout and hunt the tag.

12AE early is a different story. Everything I’m reading says that shooting a giant buck on the early tag is unlikely even with an outfitter. It can be done, and the odds probably are higher with an outfitter than DIY but it almost sounds like a guy could luck into a good buck DIY or with a guide. Sounds like getting a buck isn’t the issue (although I’ve watched Randy’s hunt again since getting the credit card hit), but getting the big one just isn’t that likely.

Done a lot of reading and talked to an outfitter and emailed a few more. The money really isn’t the issue, I can afford to go guided without that much difficulty financially. I prefer to DIY but this is an area I’ve never even stepped foot in so I would be way behind before the hunt even started. Sounds like the hunt gets better toward the end of the season so I would want to try to stick it out until then either way.

I have a 181” gross New Mexico mule deer on the wall so I would be trying to do better than that. It feels a little like it would be cheating if I hired a guide but I do think my chances of getting a better buck would possibly be worth it. If it is shooting a 170” buck with a guide and shooting a 160” buck DIY that wouldn’t be worth it. If it is shooting a 185” buck with a guide vs. a 165” buck DIY it probably would be.

I already have a very full fall and will be short on time off so that’s one reason that hiring a guide is tempting.

Oh well, not sure anyone can really help me with my choice or not. Any input or advice is appreciated.

Thanks, Nathan

Also, you have listed 3 choices for hunts here. AZ looks at everyone's 1st and 2nd choice first before ever moving to 3rd choice. Whatever your 3rd choice was, you almost certainly did not draw it since none of those hunts ever make it to 3rd choice.