H.R. 8828 introduced -Leghold and conibear traps

[Mallardsx2]

Maybe someday I'll be as good as you...

Oh lord have mercy, you know better, I would never consider myself a better hunter/fisher/trapper/gatherer/sportsman/reloader/conservationist than the almighty BuzzH of the internet hunting forums. lol

All kidding aside, I do appreciate the conversations you partake in. It almost always shows the other side of the coin. Some of which I may or may not disagree with.

Cant please everyone!

 

[Outlaw99]

Well you've squeezed it out of me. I came to this thread pretty sympathetic to trapping, but the tone of the trappers or trappers representatives here have definitely shifted my stance away from supporting this use of public land.

Not sure why you'd want to be your own worst enemy, but to each their own. Good luck.

I will be reviewing again how to release my dog from sets and will try to remember to pack along a leatherman.

These are much quicker and efficient regarding snares. Every dog man should carry a pair

HIT Heavy Duty Cable Cutters - F&T Fur Harvester's Trading Post

HIT Heavy Duty Cable Cutters

www.fntpost.com

 

[shoots-straight]

Most people on this board have an apathetic view toward trapping - neither positive or negative. They probably generally support the idea, but you tell them they have to put their dog on a leash or shorten the bird season. That is a great way to turn people against the idea. Now, the general public, most of them are probably against trapping from the start. Good luck telling grandma that she has to keep her dog on a leash in the NF because some trapper is trying to catch a bobcat.
You can pout on the internet about the unfairness of it all, but you are just putting nails in the coffin of the sport.

That's not really true. I'd say a high percentage of Big Game hunters are trapping supporters as they don't want predators eating their Elk and Deer. Those that support trapping came out in the 2016 elections and they won by a pretty large margin. The Fish and Game's Trappers Advisory committee come out of that attempt and hopefully will help with anymore actions taking place in Montana.

Alright, you might have apathetic views on trapping on THIS board. I was speaking to Montana as a whole.

 

[Shangobango]

Well you've squeezed it out of me. I came to this thread pretty sympathetic to trapping, but the tone of the trappers or trappers representatives here have definitely shifted my stance away from supporting this use of public land.

Not sure why you'd want to be your own worst enemy, but to each their own. Good luck.

I will be reviewing again how to release my dog from sets and will try to remember to pack along a leatherman.

Sorry you feel that way.

Out of curiosity, what was it that turned you?

 

[Shangobango]

The biggest difference between the two sides that I see here, and maybe I am wrong and it is just my perception, is that one side, for the most part, is sympathetic to the needs of the other while the other side, for the most part, is not.

It is a shame really when the two sides have so much in common.

 

[BuzzH]

Saw this thread the other day...made me think, "this is where compromising leads".

Beginner Trapper Success

As hunting season died down this year I found myself with a lot of time on my hands and decided to take up trapping. Being from Colorado I can only use cage traps which I knew would be a little more difficult to get predators to go into and that I couldn't set many out. I got 2 XL Duke Cage...

www.hunttalk.com

I feel so damn bad that a young guy like this has to live in a state where the majority has reduced his "trapping" to this. Even more upsetting that the trappers and hunters there compromised and handled those that oppose trapping with kid gloves as not to offend anyone...and didn't realize this is where it leads. How did that work out? Probably about the same as it did in Oregon, and California, and Arizona.

Probably all started innocent enough, lets regulate snares and body grips for offsets. Nope, that didn't work because a dog off leash still got trapped, now lets just ban snares and bodygrips altogether. Damn, rover got stuck in a foothold and went hungry for a night, lets limit footholds to private land only. Well, my dog trespassed on the neighbors and got his paw pinched...yep, now we're down to haveahart traps...

Compromise 4 times and you're left with 6 1/4 percent of what you started with...and EXACTLY where aggiehunter has found himself in Colorado.

Regulated to the point it may as well be out-right banned, and honestly at that point, I'd rather it was.

But, lets play patty-cake with everybody and compromise some more...its worked so well in the past, I mean what could possibly go wrong?

 

[theat]

Well you've squeezed it out of me. I came to this thread pretty sympathetic to trapping, but the tone of the trappers or trappers representatives here have definitely shifted my stance away from supporting this use of public land.

Not sure why you'd want to be your own worst enemy, but to each their own. Good luck.

I will be reviewing again how to release my dog from sets and will try to remember to pack along a leatherman.

Hell, I have traps out right now and after reading this thread I'm not sure I support trapping anymore. For some reason hunters and trappers can't help but portray themselves in a negative light that ends up continuously shooting themselves in the foot. Often they don't even realize that they are dong it.

 

[Shangobango]

Hell, I have traps out right now and after reading this thread I'm not sure I support trapping anymore. For some reason hunters and trappers can't help but portray themselves in a negative light that ends up continuously shooting themselves in the foot. Often they don't even realize that they are dong it.

Sorry, but for a couple posters here I don’t see it.

Anyone care to explain so maybe we can do better or is it a “ we don’t agree so you must be bad” type of deal?

 

[BrdHntr]

Saw this thread the other day...made me think, "this is where compromising leads".

Beginner Trapper Success

As hunting season died down this year I found myself with a lot of time on my hands and decided to take up trapping. Being from Colorado I can only use cage traps which I knew would be a little more difficult to get predators to go into and that I couldn't set many out. I got 2 XL Duke Cage...

www.hunttalk.com

I feel so damn bad that a young guy like this has to live in a state where the majority has reduced his "trapping" to this. Even more upsetting that the trappers and hunters there compromised and handled those that oppose trapping with kid gloves as not to offend anyone...and didn't realize this is where it leads. How did that work out? Probably about the same as it did in Oregon, and California, and Arizona.

Probably all started innocent enough, lets regulate snares and body grips for offsets. Nope, that didn't work because a dog off leash still got trapped, now lets just ban snares and bodygrips altogether. Damn, rover got stuck in a foothold and went hungry for a night, lets limit footholds to private land only. Well, my dog trespassed on the neighbors and got his paw pinched...yep, now we're down to haveahart traps...

Compromise 4 times and you're left with 6 1/4 percent of what you started with...and EXACTLY where aggiehunter has found himself in Colorado.

Regulated to the point it may as well be out-right banned, and honestly at that point, I'd rather it was.

But, lets play patty-cake with everybody and compromise some more...its worked so well in the past, I mean what could possibly go wrong?

What could possibly go wrong? Well, Biff, I've lurked this site long enough to know you're a sh!t stirrer and a bully, so there's probably no way to have a civil conversation with you. I could cut n paste some of the barbs you threw at me but...well, I just won't play into your childish taunts

But, to be fair, I do commend you for wanting a trapped animal dispatched quickly, like in a 330. I'm much like you in that regard, not really into prolonging the killing part of a blood sport. I just don't want that animal to be my, or anybody else's dog.

Many of us aren't the little old lady that you portray with "fido"...

 

[BuzzH]

Lets just all be honest here...trapping has no future. Its been pointed out that the minority flat loses, and I agree.

Its flat too controversial and as long as pets can run loose and one dog a year gets pinched, support will only continue to decline.

If you still have it and want to do it, I suggest getting after it. There just isn't the support for it, and compromising is flat never going to keep it around long. History in other states has proven that.

Glad I got to do it, may try to squeeze a bit more in when I retire and have the time.

I'm also glad most of my trapping, hunting, and fishing is in the rear-view, all minority activities with an eventual shelf-life.

 

[BuzzH]

What could possibly go wrong? Well, Biff, I've lurked this site long enough to know you're a sh!t stirrer and a bully, so there's probably no way to have a civil conversation with you. I could cut n paste some of the barbs you threw at me but...well, I just won't play into your childish taunts

But, to be fair, I do commend you for wanting a trapped animal dispatched quickly, like in a 330. I'm much like you in that regard, not really into prolonging the killing part of a blood sport. I just don't want that animal to be my, or anybody else's dog.

Many of us aren't the little old lady that you portray with "fido"...

Yeah, I'll take your high moral code into consideration with your first post wanting to take a pound of flesh from another legal user of public lands, engaging in a legal activity that you don't happen to agree with.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Well you've squeezed it out of me. I came to this thread pretty sympathetic to trapping, but the tone of the trappers or trappers representatives here have definitely shifted my stance away from supporting this use of public land.

Not sure why you'd want to be your own worst enemy, but to each their own. Good luck.

I will be reviewing again how to release my dog from sets and will try to remember to pack along a leatherman.

I've done a tiny bit of trapping, I enjoyed it would love to do more... but I entirely agree about your comment on being your own worst enemy.

Some of the comments here brought to mind some of the blaze orange threads, specifically the folks saying recreationists should have to wear blaze on public lands. Absolutely not, you're pulling the trigger it's 100% on you to know your target.

You're trapping it's 100% on you to try and anticipate and reduce accidental catch.

I don't support trapping bans in the least.

 

[BrdHntr]

You guys want to go out there and set traps that do not discriminate on what it catches? Want to set Snares and Conibears that can and will kill non target animals, including hunting dogs?

Well, then go ahead, just be ACCOUNTABLE. Don't hide behind your State reg's, be responsible for your actions and what you might, accidently or intentionally injure or kill with your traps. Don't you agree, Biff H.?

Carry a fat wallet with a lot of money or take a severe ass whoopin' like a man if your traps put the k-bang on someone's bird dog. If you can't, or, are not willing, then don't be trapping

 

[VikingsGuy]

The biggest difference between the two sides that I see here, and maybe I am wrong and it is just my perception, is that one side, for the most part, is sympathetic to the needs of the other while the other side, for the most part, is not.

It is a shame really when the two sides have so much in common.

What I see is too much overgeneralization all around. This thread leaves me with a number of thoughts (none directed specifically at you, Shango):

• I have limited interest in trapping, but respect those that have a passion for it and try to do it in a common sense way as shown in many of the comments above.
• Thanks to @huronmtns and a few others I learned of some reasonable options that may help - thank you.
• I know most trappers are capable sportsman who try to do the right thing, but there are enough that either don't care or are simply incompetent that it is a real problem in my state.
• This was never an "all trapping" discussion in my mind - it was not mentioned in OP original post, and never in the comments of many posters - this thread started - and is most useful - when it sticks to the conabear/body-grip discussion.
• I think this is a state issue, so the needs/concerns/interests in MN are different in some ways that MT, LA or VT. And really not a Fed issue.
• I think the attempts to blame dog owners (who also have fools amoungst them) showed up a lot here - that is not an example of trapper's sympathy.
• Some folks who purport to know something about hunting with dogs, clearly know nothing about hunting with dogs.
• Some folks love tangential arguments by way of gamesmanship and distraction -- old ladies with lap dogs, leash laws for hunting dogs, specific dates of when regulation a or b pass in state x, y or z. Too bad since most posters seemed to try to advance the discussion productively.
• Too many (but not all) conversations in our country are led by the thickheaded absolutists on both sides. Too few involve actual exchange and progress - thanks to those Huntalkers who know the difference and take the constructive route.
• It's amazing how when people seek to address actual legally protected constitutional rights some label them as whiners and reminded that they need to be thinking more about responsibility -- yet when those same critics feel any part of their world is touched by change some how it's all about their "rights" and responsiblity seems to be much less interesting.
• I am left with the observation that I can't really think of any other part of our legal framework that allows people to place (sometimes hidden) intentionally dangerous objects unattended in public areas (with no information regarding who placed those devices in most states) and this is done with a near complete lack of accountability for the foreseeable outcomes. Simply walking your dog in a public place is not an assumption of the risk under the laws of any state that I am aware of.

 

[Irrelevant]

I've done a tiny bit of trapping, I enjoyed it would love to do more... but I entirely agree about your comment on being your own worst enemy.

Some of the comments here brought to mind some of the blaze orange threads, specifically the folks saying recreationists should have to wear blaze on public lands. Absolutely not, you're pulling the trigger it's 100% on you to know your target.

You're trapping it's 100% on you to try and anticipate and reduce accidental catch.

I don't support trapping bans in the least.

I've attempted to do some as well, all be it WA makes it pretty challenging. But holy hell, the Go F yourself attitude is ridiculous. No wonder the ship will sink, look at all the holes someone shot in the bottom!

 

[BuzzH]

I've done a tiny bit of trapping, I enjoyed it would love to do more... but I entirely agree about your comment on being your own worst enemy.

Some of the comments here brought to mind some of the blaze orange threads, specifically the folks saying recreationists should have to wear blaze on public lands. Absolutely not, you're pulling the trigger it's 100% on you to know your target.

You're trapping it's 100% on you to try and anticipate and reduce accidental catch.

I don't support trapping bans in the least.

Clearly proves one thing...you havent done much trapping.

I will say that by-catch is really rare (non-furbearer), but does happen, and there is NO way to set a trap, 100% of the time, to only catch a target animal. I dont care how many animals you've trapped or how hard you try.

I've caught otters in beaver sets. I've caught coons in muskrat traps. Caught skunks/badgers in coyote sets. I've caught beaver in otter sets. Caught mink in rat sets, rats in mink sets...happens. Caught coons in beaver traps.

Strangest one on a non-target I've seen is a mallard drake in a #4 leghold set under water on a castor mound set for beaver...snapped on the beak. Must have been dabbling around and touched the pan?

For the record, my trapping partner and I did get a dog in a trap once, and where it was, would have been the LAST place I'd ever think a dog would get pinched. Nowhere near a trailhead, random spot on a forest road in Western Montana. Guarded cubby, full 12-14 inches offset with a 330, triggers off-set to 1/4 of the opening (to prevent catching younger, smaller cats) definitely a full 1/3 mile from the road, cross country, no trail at the mouth of 2 draws. I wasn't there, but the dog and owner were when my trapping partner showed up. Got the dog out and it was fine. Only lure was a beaver 1/4 (completely covered), LDC, feathers, and a scoop of cat-man-do...

My question is how is that preventable other than an out-right ban? How many more precautions can I take? What are they?

There's no way in the lower-48 that a dog isn't going to get pinched every year...I don't care how careful a trapper is.

As such, like I said, the future only points to a trapping ban. One dog is one too many...and that's been more than pointed out on this thread.

 

[npaden]

I trap and I have a bird dog. I hate hearing foothold traps called leghold traps. I would agree that there are drastic misconceptions on both sides of the argument. If this law passes as is, it will seriously hamper a lot of wildlife conservation activities. Not sure how they are going to introduce wolves in Colorado if they aren't able to trap them somewhere else. They ain't catching a wolf in a haveaheart trap.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I trap and I have a bird dog. I hate hearing foothold traps called leghold traps. I would agree that there are drastic misconceptions on both sides of the argument. If this law passes as is, it will seriously hamper a lot of wildlife conservation activities. Not sure how they are going to introduce wolves in Colorado if they aren't able to trap them somewhere else. They ain't catching a wolf in a haveaheart trap.

This irony has not be lost on me.

 

[BrdHntr]

Biff H., since this thread isn't going quite your way....and before you do your customary hide under the skirts of the Admin and cry to get it locked, answer me this:

Since you're 100% pro-trapping, would you be willing to set a trap or snare and then monitor it 24 hr a day to keep the set from catching a non target animal? This way, an indiscriminate device becomes, with your eyes on it, discriminate

 

[brockel]

Saw this thread the other day...made me think, "this is where compromising leads".

Beginner Trapper Success

As hunting season died down this year I found myself with a lot of time on my hands and decided to take up trapping. Being from Colorado I can only use cage traps which I knew would be a little more difficult to get predators to go into and that I couldn't set many out. I got 2 XL Duke Cage...

www.hunttalk.com

I feel so damn bad that a young guy like this has to live in a state where the majority has reduced his "trapping" to this. Even more upsetting that the trappers and hunters there compromised and handled those that oppose trapping with kid gloves as not to offend anyone...and didn't realize this is where it leads. How did that work out? Probably about the same as it did in Oregon, and California, and Arizona.

Probably all started innocent enough, lets regulate snares and body grips for offsets. Nope, that didn't work because a dog off leash still got trapped, now lets just ban snares and bodygrips altogether. Damn, rover got stuck in a foothold and went hungry for a night, lets limit footholds to private land only. Well, my dog trespassed on the neighbors and got his paw pinched...yep, now we're down to haveahart traps...

Compromise 4 times and you're left with 6 1/4 percent of what you started with...and EXACTLY where aggiehunter has found himself in Colorado.

Regulated to the point it may as well be out-right banned, and honestly at that point, I'd rather it was.

But, lets play patty-cake with everybody and compromise some more...its worked so well in the past, I mean what could possibly go wrong?

When Montana gets to this point and it will, I will be done for sure. Which I guess is the end game and what the ones constantly pushing what a trapper can do want in the first place. But at least I will have those memories of spending the time on the trapline with my daughters and time in the fur shed.