"Greenwashing at it's best"

[Ben Lamb]

 

[AlaskaHunter]

The full precision of a chemist - I like that. But now the petro guys/gals need to point out gasoline isn't just C8 chains

And combustion is not 100 percent.

 

[BrentD]

The full precision of a chemist - I like that. But now the petro guys/gals need to point out gasoline isn't just C8 chains

I don't know what a gallon of gasoline weighs, but less than water, and just roughly scratching it out, I don't need more than about 350 lbs of gas to drive my F150 1000 miles at 80 per,never mind some econo car. What percentage of gasoline is carbon? 110%???

 

[VikingsGuy]

I don't know what a gallon of gasoline weighs, but less than water, and just roughly scratching it out, I don't need more than about 350 lbs of gas to drive my F150 1000 miles at 80 per,never mind some econo car. What percentage of gasoline is carbon? 110%???

Gas is about 6 lbs, Water is about 8 lbs. For whatever weight of gasoline (which is a very complex mixture of both chain and cyclic c4-c12 organics as well as various additives like ethanol and detergents) the majority of the weight of CO2 generated by running your vehicle is oxygen from the atmosphere.

The mass balance equation for one example carbon chain found in gas is:

2 C8H18 + 25 O2 → 16 CO2 + 18 H2O. With the MW of these reactants being 114, 32, 44 & 18 respectively. That means that 1 lb of C8H18 in your gas tank combines with 3.5 lbs of oxygen from the atmosphere to create 3 lbs of CO2 and 1.5 lbs of water.

(Note: this is one simple example, it does not address incomplete combustion, relative energy generation of each combustible molecule, the impact of various additives, and the mass balanced equations for the many other organic components in gas - but it does get us directionally correct on the "weight questions" raised in the thread.)

As for how much of gasoline is carbon, it varies given all the blending, but if we assume C8H18 is the "average organic chain/cyclic" and that is about 85% of the gasoline and 85% of C8H8 is carbon + 10% is ethanol where carbon is 52% of its weight is carbon and we ignore the 1-5% "other" you get a general sense that about 77.5% of the weight of gasoline is accounted for by carbon.

 

[BrentD]

Gas is about 6 lbs, Water is about 8 lbs. For whatever weight of gasoline (which is a very complex mixture of both chain and cyclic c4-c12 organics as well as various additives like ethanol and detergents) the majority of the weight of CO2 generated by running your vehicle is oxygen from the atmosphere.

The mass balance equation for one example carbon chain found in gas is:

2 C8H18 + 25 O2 → 16 CO2 + 18 H2O. With the MW of these reactants being 114, 32, 44 & 18 respectively. That means that 1 lb of C8H18 in your gas tank combines with 3.5 lbs of oxygen from the atmosphere to create 3 lbs of CO2 and 1.5 lbs of water.

(Note: this is one simple example, it does not address incomplete combustion, relative energy generation of each combustible molecule, the impact of various additives, and the mass balanced equations for the many other organic components in gas - but it does get us directionally correct on the "weight questions" raised in the thread.)

As for how much of gasoline is carbon, it varies given all the blending, but if we assume C8H18 is the "average organic chain/cyclic" and that is about 85% of the gasoline and 85% of C8H8 is carbon + 10% is ethanol where carbon is 52% of its weight is carbon and we ignore the 1-5% "other" you get a general sense that about 77.5% of the weight of gasoline is accounted for by carbon.

I've since lost what the purpose of this discussion is/was, but I can now eyeball the number of lbs of carbon produced ejected by my truck when I drive up north next week, ~1000 miles round trip. Thanks!

 

[VikingsGuy]

So, the takeaway from this thread for me . . . We need to be oxygen neutral more than carbon neutral to save the earth

#oxygenneutral2050

 

[BigHornRam]

I've since lost what the purpose of this discussion is/was, but I can now eyeball the number of lbs of carbon produced ejected by my truck when I drive up north next week, ~1000 miles round trip. Thanks!

Just stay away from the bakebeans, and the green police won't be writing you up!

 

[Irrelevant]

"Look! CO2, we must stop it!"

meanwhile, @wllm causing all kinds of problems for us...

Methane ‘Super-Emitters’ Mapped by NASA’s New Earth Space Mission - NASA

Built to help scientists understand how dust affects climate, the Earth Surface Mineral Dust Source Investigation can also pinpoint emissions of the potent

www.nasa.gov

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

"Look! CO2, we must stop it!"

meanwhile, @wllm causing all kinds of problems for us...

Methane ‘Super-Emitters’ Mapped by NASA’s New Earth Space Mission - NASA

Built to help scientists understand how dust affects climate, the Earth Surface Mineral Dust Source Investigation can also pinpoint emissions of the potent

www.nasa.gov

TotalEnergies launches global drone methane emissions detection program

French energy giant TotalEnergies is launching a drone methane emissions detection program across its upstream oil and gas operated sites.

dronedj.com

Oil and gas industry to drive global drone market

The global drone market is set to grow from US$13.7 billion in 2021 to US$89.6 billion in 2030, aided by significant adoption in the oil and gas industry.

www.hydrocarbonengineering.com

Lots of cool tech advances in methane monitoring

 

[clross]

"Look! CO2, we must stop it!"

meanwhile, @wllm causing all kinds of problems for us...

Methane ‘Super-Emitters’ Mapped by NASA’s New Earth Space Mission - NASA

Built to help scientists understand how dust affects climate, the Earth Surface Mineral Dust Source Investigation can also pinpoint emissions of the potent

www.nasa.gov

Well they are related. The CO2 rise is contributing to the permafrost melt, releasing methane which is a stronger GHG. Positive feedback loop.

 

[Irrelevant]

‘They lied’: plastics producers deceived public about recycling, report reveals | Recycling | The Guardian

Companies knew for decades recycling was not viable but promoted it regardless, Center for Climate Integrity study finds

amp.theguardian.com

 

[TOGIE]

Whether it’s Big Pharma, Big Food, Big Oil, Big Healthcare, Big Wind, Big Hydro…. and, really, Big “Anything” you can rest assured they’re probably pulling multiple somethings out of their ass, creating “science” out of it, lobbying Congress, and turning a blind eye in the name of profit.

 

[ismith]

Recycling plastic is practically impossible — and the problem is getting worse

A new report from Greenpeace found that people may be putting plastic into recycling bins — but almost none of it is actually being recycled. Meanwhile, plastic production is ramping up.

www.npr.org

To think that "recycling" is nothing more than a feel good scheme to keep us addicted to plastics and feel good about that addiction.

I firmly believe we all want to do good to the environment, we often disagree what that means or the costs we're willing to pay for it, but I can't think of a bigger scam than recycling.

What else is a good example of "greenwashing"?

EV cars?
Reusable grocery bags?

Green-horn

 

[Forkyfinder]

Feel like anything is greenwashed now.

A lot of it is marketing to gen z and milleinials. "Sustainability" is the new sexy.

But - there are things that are objectively better for the enviroment that get stated to be "greenwashing" for politics.

 

[ismith]

Well they are related. The CO2 rise is contributing to the permafrost melt, releasing methane which is a stronger GHG. Positive feedback loop.

Sources?

 

[Marshian]

I know I’m over simplifying this, but at the end of the day, burning things whether it’s for an internal combustion engine, heating water or a home, or whatever ultimately seems like a primitive technology. When I envision the future as in a 100 years out and beyond, hopefully it’s more like Star Trek and not just burning stuff which is essentially what cave men did. I realize it’s a transition and I don’t want a heavy handed government ramming it down my throat, but I am ok with tax breaks to alternate energy sources, especially nuclear, and increasing taxes on fossil fuel based sources.

And the outcry that “China and India aren’t doing it!” is short sighted and silly to me. Some countries still have polio, doesn’t mean I’m gonna throw my hands in the air and say until they get rid of it, I don’t care either.

 

[ismith]

I know I’m over simplifying this, but at the end of the day, burning things whether it’s for an internal combustion engine, heating water or a home, or whatever ultimately seems like a primitive technology. When I envision the future as in a 100 years out and beyond, hopefully it’s more like Star Trek and not just burning stuff which is essentially what cave men did. I realize it’s a transition and I don’t want a heavy handed government ramming it down my throat, but I am ok with tax breaks to alternate energy sources, especially nuclear, and increasing taxes on fossil fuel based sources.

And the outcry that “China and India aren’t doing it!” is short sighted and silly to me. Some countries still have polio, doesn’t mean I’m gonna throw my hands in the air and say until they get ride if it, I don’t care either.

You saying this because your people f’ed up Mars by burning stuff or do you have the hots for Greta? It’s cold as hell outside right now.

 

[Marshian]

You saying this because your people f’ed up Mars by burning stuff or do you have the hots for Greta? It’s cold as hell outside right now.

“my people f’ed up Mars”? What is this referring to? And no I’m no Greta fan, she’s off the deep end , but you referring to it being cold at this moment where you are means nothing to me. Why is Glacier park nearly out of glaciers? And why do the vast, vast majority of scientists agree the earth overall is warming. You’ll likely say conspiracy. We will agree to disagree on that.

 

[ismith]

“my people f’ed up Mars”? What is this referring to? And no I’m no Greta fan, she’s off the deep end , but you referring to it being cold at this moment where you are means nothing to me. Why is Glacier park nearly out of glaciers? And why do the vast, vast majority of scientists agree the earth overall is warming. You’ll likely say conspiracy. We will agree to disagree on that.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Whether it’s Big Pharma, Big Food, Big Oil, Big Healthcare, Big Wind, Big Hydro…. and, really, Big “Anything” you can rest assured they’re probably pulling multiple somethings out of their ass, creating “science” out of it, lobbying Congress, and turning a blind eye in the name of profit.

I definitely agree large groups of humans make messes. It’s not just the ones on your list.

Much of the mess comes from Big Universities, Big NGOs, Big Bureaucracy, Big Government, Big Media, and Big Stupid. And then “Big Companies” try to navigate what they are stuck with.