Got a problem and considering hanging up this handloading thing

fattybinz

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Aug 21, 2018
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I'm in a bind and I don't know what to do. Its a long story but basically I started hunting and handloading a year ago. Everything started fine...worked up a few loads for my new tikka t3x in 7mm rem mag. 140gr accubonds, remington brass, R22 using a Lee Breech Lock press and RCBS dies. Loaded about 500 rounds and was very happy with the results I was getting and then out of nowhere I started getting copper shavings around my case mouths after seating bullets. These were .8moa loads at 300yds before and they opened up after the shavings appeared. I've tried everything:

-gave cases an over-exaggerated chamfer to make sure that wasn't it. Tried a VLD chamfer. tried lubing bullets and case mouths. cleaned shell holder and the ram where the shell holder goes in. shell holder is flush all around the ram, so it isn't mis-aligned.
-took dies apart and cleaned them. measured my expander ball to make sure it hadn't been worn down or damaged...which would explain a smaller case mouth and more pressure at the case neck.
-tried with a different box of 140gr ABs. tried with a different type of bullet, hornady eld-x 162gr. tried two different times of brass, remington and norma. bought new remington brass, chamfered it a bit, and loaded dummy rounds. still shavings.
-took my dies to a friend's house and went through a whole round of resizing, trimming, reprimering, chamfering, charging, and seating. all with my dies and his press. no shavings. he prepped 5 cases with my resizing die. I took them home and seated bullets in them. shavings.

So especially with using my friend's press I thought I narrowed it down to my press becoming misaligned somehow. I did go through a period where my seating die was screwed in too far and I was putting a lot of pressure on the press as I cranked on it to try to get consistent seating depths. I sent it back to Lee and they replaced a bunch of parts on it and sent it back. Just installed the press on my bench and loaded some dummy rounds...and still shavings.

I'm desperate. Considering hanging the whole handloading thing up...but I don't want to because I was really enjoying it. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Maybe just buy a new press? If I do that and there are still shavings I think I'm going to flip.
 
Have you tried a different die on your press?

I have not tried that. I figured I ruled the dies out when I used them with my friend's press and they worked fine. They also loaded the first 500 rounds without a problem.
 
If you have isolated every variable, and the only variable that results in failure is the press, then get a new press. Compared to the time an materials involved in troubleshooting to this point, a new press would be a relatively small cost. Get what your friend has, as you know it works with your stuff.
 
Stick with it bud! You’re already invested in a lot of equipment and you have an accurate load. I would suggest getting a new press and starting with some new brass also.
 
Agreed with the new press, I really think this is the solution since you told us that your friend's press didn't cause any shaving issue.


At least just the press isn't a huge sum of money like it would be if you had to buy all your equipment again!
 
Logic says it is the press. I wouldn't give up. I would buy a Bonanza/Forster press and see what happens.
 
Even tho your process of elimination seems to indict the press as the cause of the problem, it makes no sense that a press just goes bad. I've neck sized .25-06 cases without using an expander and was able to seat .264 bullets without issue.

Have you pulled any shaved bullets to see if the shaving is all the way around or just on part/s of the bullet? Did you check your seater plug to make sure that it's clean where it contacts the bullet? I would suggest to check the plug to make sure that it's clean. Screw the seat die in as you would normally do, then back out the seater stem. Run a good round that wasn't shaved [if you still have one] up into the die. Screw the seater plug back down until it contacts the bullet, and then tighten the seater stem lock ring. Try seating another bullet to see if that fixes the problem.
 
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Even tho your process of elimination seems to indict the press as the cause of the problem, it makes no sense that a press just goes bad. I've neck sized .25-06 cases without using an expander was able to seat .264 bullets without issue.

Have you pulled any shaved bullets to see if the shaving is all the way around or just on part/s of the bullet? Did you check your seater plug to make sure that it's clean where it contacts the bullet? I would suggest to check the plug to make sure that it's clean. Screw the seat die in as you would normally do, then back out the seater stem. Run a good round that wasn't shaved [if you still have one] up into the die. Screw the seater plug back down until it contacts the bullet, and then tighten the seater stem lock ring. Try seating another bullet to see if that fixes the problem.

Don't think the press going bad was random. After those first 500 rounds I realized that my seating die was installed wrong (I screwed them in until they hit the ram, and then backed off 1/4-1/2 turn...instead of putting an empty case and screwing it in until it hit the case) and I was ending up with bulges in my case necks. I was really cranking at the press trying to get consistent CBTO lengths...so all that pressure may have done something to the press. I installed the seating die correctly and I'm pretty sure if loaded fine for 40-50 more rounds but then the problem started. To be fair, it may be possible that those 40-50 rounds had shavings and I didn't notice...but that would surprise me since I was taking a pretty close look at them when measuring length.

I have pulled bullets and the scrapes go all around, but there are more on one side of the bullet than the other. I did take my seating die apart and cleaned everything, including the seater plug. Remember, I also took this same die to my friends house and it worked. I spoke to him yesterday and he is going to lend me some dies to try on my press to see what happens there.

I installed my seating die as you described...using a loaded round to get the seat plug to the correct position.
 
Agree with antelopedundee. I don't see how it could be the press. The case is fully encased in the die, with very little room to move. The press would have to be moving the case out of alignment a substantial amount to bind the case/bullet, to cause shaving. No way there is that much slop in it.

If I had to guess, there are 2 things I would check. The first is the die is it sounds like the die is screwed in too far. Think about the process, you're compressing the case mouth before the bullet is seated, there is no other way you can get shavings... Compression and seating should happen at very close to the same time. You'll see shavings if the mouth is compressed while you're still pressing the bullet in. I've had this happen.

The second is the case length. If the cases are too long, again you could be compressing the mouth before the bullet is seated to depth. You said it started after loading 500 rounds, but it happened with other brass... Did you trim the new brass as well?

I would buy a new set of dies before a press if backing it off and/or trimming doesn't fix the issue. I would say there is next to zero chance its the press.
 
Have you checked out the shell holder? Both the socket it connects too and the area where the brass seats? Maybe it could cause a cant that could lead to shaving if it is not square with the press and dies.
 
Agree with antelopedundee. I don't see how it could be the press. The case is fully encased in the die, with very little room to move. The press would have to be moving the case out of alignment a substantial amount to bind the case/bullet, to cause shaving. No way there is that much slop in it.

If I had to guess, there are 2 things I would check. The first is the die is it sounds like the die is screwed in too far. Think about the process, you're compressing the case mouth before the bullet is seated, there is no other way you can get shavings... Compression and seating should happen at very close to the same time. You'll see shavings if the mouth is compressed while you're still pressing the bullet in. I've had this happen.

The second is the case length. If the cases are too long, again you could be compressing the mouth before the bullet is seated to depth. You said it started after loading 500 rounds, but it happened with other brass... Did you trim the new brass as well?

I would buy a new set of dies before a press if backing it off and/or trimming doesn't fix the issue. I would say there is next to zero chance its the press.

Might be on to something here. Like I said in my last post, this started happening after I re-installed my seating die. So what is the correct way to install the die? I put the seating stem all the way up, then put an empty case in the ram, put it all the way up, screw the die in until it touches the empty case, then back it off 1/2 to a full turn. Then I put a dummy round with a bullet seated already in and i lower the seating stem until it touches that bullet. Isn't that all correct?

I've trimmed my cases to spec. Also tried new brass.

I just got my hands on a different pair of dies that I've borrowed from a friend, so i'm going to try them tonight. I'm excited....I thought I was at a dead end but if it turns out to be a bad die or a mis-installed die then it would be great to get to the bottom of it.
 
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It could definitely be a bad die or that something got bent or tweaked when you had it setup wrong but then why would it work fine in your buddies press? Hmm
Trying your buddies die should help narrow down a lot of it.
 
Does your seater die crimp as well? If so have you checked to make sure it's not crimping too soon?
 
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