Good read or fake news?

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
6,651
Location
Montana
Wait, you support ICE? Good for you. It's a necessary function for protecting the interior of our ***borders.

 

rjthehunter

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
479
Location
Minnesota
My perspective is different.

I grew up in Utah. My dad was a drywaller. You either knew of most drywaller, or knew them in a big area. Before Utah urbanized.

In the early 90's we ended up in Vegas. It was a shock. Dudes who didn't speak English, cash payments, shithole working conditions.

Came back. California real estate market crashed. Almost over night there was a new labor force.

And the contractors here treated those guys like slaves. Wages plummeted. Shithole conditions.

I've heard every bullshit reason in the world. But at the end if the day it wasn't about improving life for guys. Wasn't about the American dream. It was straight up slavery.

Those guys came seeking a solution and they were exploited to levels that should have landed their bosses in prison.

The wall ain't perfect. But unless you've seen the depravity that guys are subjected to, you should hold your tongue.

It's disgusting beyond belief that so many in America believe it their God given right to exploit a brown skinned man.

While the wall might slow folks coming, it's a freaking testament to the EVIL so many "mericans" have perpetuated on folks, just because they can.

We wouldn't need a wall if it wasn't for all the folks in this country who decided the brown man was born less equal.

I'll get off the soap box now
So on the flip side of this... We employ roughly 40 Mexicans ever year. They have work visas to come up and work seasonally. There's not enough that want to come work. We could use a hundred of them because so few people around here can handle concrete work. The Mexicans for the most part are hard workers and take pride in what they do.

There's avenues for them to come work legally and make 10x what they'd make working down in Mexico OR coming here illigally. I don't understand why they think coming illegally will achieve anything.
 

NR_Hunter

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
286
Location
MN
In that case isnt the wall the cart before the horse?
Why not criminalize the exploitation of illegal labour, both individuals and corporations and then a wall might not even practical given a decrease in demand
Because some people want to have their cake and eat it too.

U think the CEOs of golden plump and Jenny-O vote red or blue come election time?
 

JLS

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
8,458
Location
Somewhere in the basalt rocks
I agree with this...its going to screw up hunting and increase damage to the more remote country, exactly where I want to hunt and protect things. It will increase traffic in the areas I like to hunt on the border...and likely increase traffic on the reservation as well.

I think it makes some reasonable sense to build barriers in high traffic areas, but just putting a wall up, out in the middle of BFE New Mexico/Arizona/Texas because its easy and convenient...isn't fixing the problem, at all. That's simply pandering to a base of people that are totally clueless on the issues and have likely never set foot anywhere close to the Southern border.
I think this touches on some points that I found really interesting in the article. I don't really care to discuss American hiring practices of illegal aliens, that's a completely different topic in and of itself.

It's pretty fascinating to see the internal political conflict in America, and this is a snapshot of that. Here you have ranching families who are self admittedly ardent Trump supporters, yet they are very conflicted with the wall building that is taking place in areas they have fought hard to protect.

Juxtapose that with the potential these segments of the wall are being fast tracked for campaign purposes rather than any real on the ground benefit, and it's easy to see how difficult it is to be a conservationist and vote on party affiliation.
 

hossblur

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
380
So on the flip side of this... We employ roughly 40 Mexicans ever year. They have work visas to come up and work seasonally. There's not enough that want to come work. We could use a hundred of them because so few people around here can handle concrete work. The Mexicans for the most part are hard workers and take pride in what they do.

There's avenues for them to come work legally and make 10x what they'd make working down in Mexico OR coming here illigally. I don't understand why they think coming illegally will achieve anything.

More of the fairytale.

The reason plumbers and electricians make more than the other trades is because with the schooling there are fewer of them, meaning they can demand more.

Supply And demand. Without that steady supply of cheap labor, wages would have to increase to attract workers. It became a self fulfilling prophecy. The first wave of cheap labor made their bosses a fortune. Then the next wave came and cut the first wave. Then the next, then the next. Now in order to compete with the other subs, a guy has no choice but to play the game.

NO ONE has ever been to Mexico and thought " man the craftsmanship down here is phenominal".

We all know how the system of bogus green cards, fake Social security # goes.
 

F250

Active member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
533
Location
Vermont
Ask the front line Border Patrol Agents what they think of the wall... They are the ones who have to deal with the illegal every day. I have been working with BP for the past 6 years. They will tell you the wall works !
 

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
6,651
Location
Montana

 

JLS

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
8,458
Location
Somewhere in the basalt rocks
But the biggest change came when several Western states began decriminalizing marijuana. The market for lower-quality Mexican-grown cannabis shrank, and Malpai families saw fewer backpackers trekking through the Peloncillos.


The cartels were switching to harder drugs — methamphetamine, cocaine and opioids — typically bringing those loads through official vehicle entry points in hidden compartments.


By the time Trump launched his presidential campaign in 2015 with the promise to build a border wall, many of the threats that drove his argument were beginning to fade, at least in the Malpai region.


McDonald thought the group’s close cooperation with Border Patrol would spare the region from having a section of wall. The group was confident that the government would look at the falling arrest and seizure numbers for that stretch of border and see no need for a 30-foot-barrier with floodlights across the desert.


“But everything from D.C. just comes in a one-size-fits-all,” McDonald said.


Rich Winkler, the current director of the Malpai group, whose family’s ranch backs up against the Peloncillo range, said he, too, is a proponent of strong national security. And he does not question the need for tall fences along other parts of the border.


“I’m sure it’s appropriate in urban areas,” Winkler said. “But what is its effectiveness out here?”


Winkler wonders how any trafficker motivated and daring enough to hike for days through the mountains with little food or water would let the barrier be much of an obstacle, given that it can be scaled with ladders and ropes or cut with household tools.
Re-read this for context. Apparently one size fits all is the scope of thought and debate on things as well.
 

neffa3

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
3,221
Location
Wenatchee
It's just another example that those pesky letters after the names of our representatives don't make a lick of difference. If you're trying to manage lands for both economic and environmental outputs, if you value both putting meat on plates and jaguars in the hills, people with both Ds and Rs are going to the source of obstacles in your life. Trump doesn't know jack shit about immigration, ranching, or wildlife and neither does Schumer. But they'll both contend they're doing what's best.
 
Last edited:

rjthehunter

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
479
Location
Minnesota
More of the fairytale.

The reason plumbers and electricians make more than the other trades is because with the schooling there are fewer of them, meaning they can demand more.

Supply And demand. Without that steady supply of cheap labor, wages would have to increase to attract workers. It became a self fulfilling prophecy. The first wave of cheap labor made their bosses a fortune. Then the next wave came and cut the first wave. Then the next, then the next. Now in order to compete with the other subs, a guy has no choice but to play the game.

NO ONE has ever been to Mexico and thought " man the craftsmanship down here is phenominal".

We all know how the system of bogus green cards, fake Social security # goes.
If there were people in the states willing to work hard. We would hire them. There is such a shortage of skilled labor that there's no other option. The Mexicans we bring up take serious pride in their work. We're not bringing up homeless people looking to make a buck and see some sights. These are experienced guys who come up here to make serious money. I can tell you first hand that they are not "cheap" labor.
 

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
6,651
Location
Montana
Statements from the front line men and women are not political. They are statements that I appreciate to better funnel criminal aliens, sex/slave trafficking and supporting Officer/Agent safety is valuable, considering the "wall" was never intended to route the extent of our bordered, Santa Rita rugged mountain range...

The El Jefe jaguar bit destroyed by border wall is environmental horse pucky. His main sightings btw, Santa Rita Mountains, Az.
 

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
6,651
Location
Montana
If there were people in the states willing to work hard. We would hire them. There is such a shortage of skilled labor that there's no other option. The Mexicans we bring up take serious pride in their work. We're not bringing up homeless people looking to make a buck and see some sights. These are experienced guys who come up here to make serious money. I can tell you first hand that they are not "cheap" labor.
There are legal visas to fill jobs that are catagorized hard to fill. From L1, H2B, TN, etc...

It's been legal, it continues to be legal and no future intent to strip legal means to enter this great country.

Legal visas / entry vs criminal sex and slave trafficking...
 

hossblur

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
380
If there were people in the states willing to work hard. We would hire them. There is such a shortage of skilled labor that there's no other option. The Mexicans we bring up take serious pride in their work. We're not bringing up homeless people looking to make a buck and see some sights. These are experienced guys who come up here to make serious money. I can tell you first hand that they are not "cheap" labor.

One needs only look at labor price statistics in the last 20 year's to see that's BS.

30 years as a drywaller. I've seen all the games.
 

BWALKER77

Active member
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
336
So on the flip side of this... We employ roughly 40 Mexicans ever year. They have work visas to come up and work seasonally. There's not enough that want to come work. We could use a hundred of them because so few people around here can handle concrete work. The Mexicans for the most part are hard workers and take pride in what they do.

There's avenues for them to come work legally and make 10x what they'd make working down in Mexico OR coming here illigally. I don't understand why they think coming illegally will achieve anything.
You mean there are so few that want to do concrete work for what you pay?
I can assure you that plenty of people want to do concrete work in parts of the country not affected by illegal aliens.
 

BWALKER77

Active member
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
336
One needs only look at labor price statistics in the last 20 year's to see that's BS.

30 years as a drywaller. I've seen all the games.
Let's call a spade a spade. Illegal and legal mexican labor is about cutting costs and nothing else.
 

BigHornRam

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
7,177
Location
"Land of Giant Rams"
One needs only look at labor price statistics in the last 20 year's to see that's BS.

30 years as a drywaller. I've seen all the games.
I helped my brother in law build his house in Logan Utah 20 years ago. I started asking some of the subs for good drywall contractors. Consensus was that the Guatamaleans were the best choice. I ended up going with a bigger established company that sent out 2 drugged out white dudes to hang the rock. By the end of the job, one was in jail. That was 20 years ago, so things have probably improved in Utah since then. ;)
 

hossblur

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
380
I helped my brother in law build his house in Logan Utah 20 years ago. I started asking some of the subs for good drywall contractors. Consensus was that the Guatamaleans were the best choice. I ended up going with a bigger established company that sent out 2 drugged out white dudes to hang the rock. By the end of the job, one was in jail. That was 20 years ago, so things have probably improved in Utah since then. ;)

Guatemalans don't do drugs so that's a great point.

And they never get thrown in jail.

You get what you pay for.
 

rjthehunter

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
479
Location
Minnesota
One needs only look at labor price statistics in the last 20 year's to see that's BS.

30 years as a drywaller. I've seen all the games.
Not sure how I can be any more clear about this. I see their work first hand. I Know what they're getting paid. I know why they come up here. They come up here because they're making triple what they'd be making back in mexico. YOUR employer might be screwing them, but around here they're treated like gold. The mexicans we're bringing up know what's expected of them and they deliver.

Let's call a spade a spade. Illegal and legal mexican labor is about cutting costs and nothing else.
This isn't true though... If we didn't bring mexicans in, we wouldn't have a labor force. We hire every American that walks in the door. The problem is, the skilled labor has a job and is being paid well. They don't want to leave their job. This COVID shit is pushing our mexicans back till June at the earliest we'll see them. We have a serious problem now. We have tons of work and not enough workers.
 

hossblur

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
380
Not sure how I can be any more clear about this. I see their work first hand. I Know what they're getting paid. I know why they come up here. They come up here because they're making triple what they'd be making back in mexico. YOUR employer might be screwing them, but around here they're treated like gold. The mexicans we're bringing up know what's expected of them and they deliver.


This isn't true though... If we didn't bring mexicans in, we wouldn't have a labor force. We hire every American that walks in the door. The problem is, the skilled labor has a job and is being paid well. They don't want to leave their job. This COVID shit is pushing our mexicans back till June at the earliest we'll see them. We have a serious problem now. We have tons of work and not enough workers.

Heres what I've seen. And i am my employer.

1. Contractor/sub buys shithole houses, pos trucks. Puts Mexicans in those houses/trucks. Then when worker complains about the wages or long hours they are reminded they will be homeless, and vehicle less and turned into ICE.

2. One legal guy acts as a labor pump.

His "cousins" do a bunch of work, the legal guy gets paid for all of them, and takes a cut.

3. Cash payments

4. 2 for 1 or 3 for 1. Each legal guy has his illegal "cousin" with him. $20 he for legal guys, actual equates to $10hr, or $20 hr equals twice as much work.

That's just some of the crap. I watched an older mexican guy have a heart attack while they we're pouring foundations. They laid him out on the side because they had a pour time and couldn't stop for a "wet back"

I see the most rickety, God awful scaffold being used because" scaffold costs money, Mexicans are cheap"

But the simple fact is, wages haven't kept pace. Despite all the contractors who clsim they are helping the Mexicans, or can't find legal help, the wage suppression tells the story. The trades that don't require school, have seen their wages flatline, simply because it cheaper to import from mexico.
 

rjthehunter

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
479
Location
Minnesota
Heres what I've seen. And i am my employer.

1. Contractor/sub buys shithole houses, pos trucks. Puts Mexicans in those houses/trucks. Then when worker complains about the wages or long hours they are reminded they will be homeless, and vehicle less and turned into ICE.

2. One legal guy acts as a labor pump.

His "cousins" do a bunch of work, the legal guy gets paid for all of them, and takes a cut.

3. Cash payments

4. 2 for 1 or 3 for 1. Each legal guy has his illegal "cousin" with him. $20 he for legal guys, actual equates to $10hr, or $20 hr equals twice as much work.

That's just some of the crap. I watched an older mexican guy have a heart attack while they we're pouring foundations. They laid him out on the side because they had a pour time and couldn't stop for a "wet back"

I see the most rickety, God awful scaffold being used because" scaffold costs money, Mexicans are cheap"

But the simple fact is, wages haven't kept pace. Despite all the contractors who clsim they are helping the Mexicans, or can't find legal help, the wage suppression tells the story. The trades that don't require school, have seen their wages flatline, simply because it cheaper to import from mexico.
That's messed up man. While I don't disagree that this sort of thing happens, it's sad to hear. We are a big operation, employing illegals would be discovered within a couple weeks. We do everything through the state. Work visas are given to selected workers and they come up for usually about 7-8 months depending on the weather. As soon as it gets cold they want to go home lol.
 
Top