Good for you Botswana

[Forkyfinder]

Sure I do, and either my family or I ate every scrap of meat off every single one of them. Same with all the cows and does I've shot.

I have left antlers and horns behind, what's your point? I'd still continue to hunt even if it was required to leave the horns and antlers behind.

Leaving the meat behind? Would take up golf, bowling, or knitting.

Always pictured you as a knitter.

 

[BuzzH]

This is where you are truly wrong. You are painting the picture that everyone that goes to Africa is going there to bring something physical home. Banning the import of horns/antlers/hides/etc. will indeed reduce the interest and the amount of people traveling to Africa to hunt but it won't destroy the market and there will still be a line of people wanting to go. I know this is fact because in Argentina, they actually ban the export of all native species yet the vast majority of people that go there to truly get the Argentina hunting experience go there to hunt waterfowl, doves, capybara, puma and brocket deer - all species in which you get to come home with nothing.

Not wrong, even the Botswana government knows it, why they're throwing a fit about another country banning the import of trophies. They're being honest about the motivation of the vast majority that hunts there.

Answer this, if sheep hunters were required to leave the horns behind, turn them over to the GF, or have them cut in 4 pieces...do you think your odds of drawing a sheep tag would:

1. Stay the same
2. Get significantly better
3. Continue to get worse

 

[BuzzH]

Always pictured you as a knitter.

I've never pictured you as a man.

 

[seeth07]

Not wrong, even the Botswana government knows it, why they're throwing a fit about another country banning the import of trophies. They're being honest about the motivation of the vast majority that hunts there.

Answer this, if sheep hunters were required to leave the horns behind, turn them over to the GF, or have them cut in 4 pieces...do you think your odds of drawing a sheep tag would:

1. Stay the same
2. Get significantly better
3. Continue to get worse

It is number 2. And that is why the Botswana government made the statement they did. They know that it will impact the travel of hunters to their country and therefore drive down the price of the outfits that offer what they do and result in less $$$ flowing into the system. I don't think anyone here is arguing that and you are correct there.

You however are painting the picture that those people that would bow out as a result are the only type of people heading there and that is absolutely not the case.

Same is true for your hypothetical case of sheep tags. Odds will get much better, $$$ flow into the states will drop BUT there will still be people that apply and go. You said it yourself that you are still going to go. In the long run though, its not good for the resource because a portion of the current advocacy is gone (abit some shitty cash cow advocacy) and likely overtime the resource will decrease due to the lack of attention and cash to the resource. So actually I need to reanswer your question. Initially in the short term, the answer in #2. However, long term the answer is most likely #3 as there likely aren't any tags to even be had.

 

[noharleyyet]

 

[Trial153]

I would bet the 90/10 rule applies. 90% of the money ends up in about 10% of the pockets involved.

I always wondered what the Africans ate before someone sold their wildlife to out of country hunters who are nice enough to kill it the for the poor local saps.


I am all for trophy hunting, however if we are going to defend it and propagate it we better come up with better strategy.

 

[BuzzH]

It is number 2. And that is why the Botswana government made the statement they did. They know that it will impact the travel of hunters to their country and therefore drive down the price of the outfits that offer what they do and result in less $$$ flowing into the system. I don't think anyone here is arguing that and you are correct there.

You however are painting the picture that those people that would bow out as a result are the only type of people heading there and that is absolutely not the case.

Same is true for your hypothetical case of sheep tags. Odds will get much better, $$$ flow into the states will drop BUT there will still be people that apply and go. You said it yourself that you are still going to go. In the long run though, its not good for the resource because a portion of the current advocacy is gone (abit some shitty cash cow advocacy) and likely overtime the resource will decrease due to the lack of attention and cash to the resource. So actually I need to reanswer your question. Initially in the short term, the answer in #2. However, long term the answer is most likely #3 as there likely aren't any tags to even be had.

Ok seeth, 1 out of 100 people would still continue to hunt Africa if they couldn't bring trophies back.

Happy now?

As to the sheep, it sure seems odd that for all the chest thumping and concern hunters here "claim to have" that funding would dry up if the trophy side of it were gone. Their passion for wildlife clearly has some pretty tight sideboards.

What happened to all these people that seem to care so much about conservation, wildlife, habitat?

Total 180 because they can't slap a head on a wall...pretty sad.

 

[Dave N]

Buzz, I have nothing against you but you sure seem to be drawing a line in the sand here and it's creating problems with your repeated posts declaring your stubbornness and unwillingness to accept that there are other opinions besides yours. If a country has laws regarding what can or cannot be brought home then that's what we need to live with. Just because someone wants to hunt there anyway doesn't make them wrong or bad to do so. I think you need a different hill to die on.

 

[Gus Chiggins]

What happened to this thread:

 

[BuzzH]

I would bet the 90/10 rule applies. 90% of the money ends up in about 10% of the pockets involved.

I always wondered what the Africans ate before someone sold their wildlife to out of country hunters who are nice enough to kill it the for the poor local saps.


I am all for trophy hunting, however if we are going to defend it and propagate it we better come up with better strategy.

Most places keep the meat and sell it to markets. It goes to the locals that can afford to buy it.

The staff/help get the neck meat and organ meat.

 

[seeth07]

Ok seeth, 1 out of 100 people would still continue to hunt Africa if they couldn't bring trophies back.

Happy now?

No because when it happened at an extreme level in Argentina (when they banned the export of all native hunting trophies in 2010) there was not a massive drop in hunters heading there. There was a dip for a couple years and now its at a level higher than ever.

 

[jejack26]

Got any mounts on the wall @BuzzH ? Could have left it behind it was just "for the meat".

Your opinion isn't going to change and neither will anyone else's on this matter. Could we please just drop it and move on?

Please let them be. My chores are done, it's pouring rain and my hip hurts. This is best entertainment I've had for awhile. Carry on!

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, I have nothing against you but you sure seem to be drawing a line in the sand here and it's creating problems with your repeated posts declaring your stubbornness and unwillingness to accept that there are other opinions besides yours. If a country has laws regarding what can or cannot be brought home then that's what we need to live with. Just because someone wants to hunt there anyway doesn't make them wrong or bad to do so. I think you need a different hill to die on.

There is no line, there's the facts that seem to be bothering you about trophy hunting.

Shoot all the stuff you want on your trophy hunts, just be honest with what it is.

 

[Treeshark]

Total 180 because they can't slap a head on a wall...pretty sad.

I’m not disagreeing with your logic here at all regarding “trophy” hunting. Is it really that sad though?

If God (or mother nature, if you’d prefer) didn’t intend for bighorn rams to be coveted as trophies, he would not have made them look so fng cool. Same with a big bull elk- they look awesome, it’s ok to acknowledge that.

It’s why we all care way more about elk and bighorn sheep than we do about black footed ferrets and whooping cranes.

 

[seeth07]

Most places keep the meat and sell it to markets. It goes to the locals that can afford to buy it.

The staff/help get the neck meat and organ meat.

again, you are so wrong painting a general picture.

In my experience in Argentina, all of the waterfowl meat was donated by us dropping it out to individual people that had requested it. We personally cleaned the birds and took the bagged meat and met the person and give it to them. They were beyond grateful because of how bad food is taxed in the province of Argentina were were at.

The axis deer we harvested was prepped for a cookout where the local community was invited to join in the BBQ of the deer whole on the fire.

 

[BuzzH]

No because when it happened at an extreme level in Argentina (when they banned the export of all native hunting trophies in 2010) there was not a massive drop in hunters heading there. There was a dip for a couple years and now its at a level higher than ever.

Argentina is not Africa. The reason that there wasn't a drop in hunters there is very few view a duck, a brocket deer, or a dove as much of a trophy when compared to a kudu, sable, etc.

You're comparing 2 things that aren't nearly the same.

 

[LuketheDog]

What Happens to an Elephant After It’s Killed by a Hunter

The myth of the "elephant graveyard" began because nobody ever saw any dead ones lying about. Within hours, or at most a couple of days, a dead elephant will be completely gone.

gothunts.com

 

[BuzzH]

again, you are so wrong painting a general picture.

In my experience in Argentina, all of the waterfowl meat was donated by us dropping it out to individual people that had requested it. We personally cleaned the birds and took the bagged meat and met the person and give it to them. They were beyond grateful because of how bad food is taxed in the province of Argentina were were at.

The axis deer we harvested was prepped for a cookout where the local community was invited to join in the BBQ of the deer whole on the fire.

Argentina is NOT Africa...although they both do start with an A.

 

[elkantlers]

I've never pictured you as a man.

Okay, this is getting stupid now.

 

[seeth07]

Argentina is NOT Africa...although they both do start with an A.

No but it's generally the same type of hunter who is willing to travel international to these places to expand their hunting expertise and knowledge