Good for you Botswana

[Desk Pop]

If it's so righteous, why the need to justify it so hard? Blah Blah, helps the locals, pays for management. Same tired story.

It's a trophy hunt and those doing the hunts could care less whether it helps the locals or not. They could care less if the meat gets used, eaten by a hyena, or rots in the sun.

Seems like a shitty thing to assume about everyone who has ever hunted Africa.

I specifically chose a CAMPFIRE concession to hunt elephant in because of the benefits to locals.

I very much cared where the 10,000 pound animal's meat went to.

-The chief got the trunk.
-The CAMPFIRE concession got the skin panels.
-We ate some backstraps at the kill site that I cooked over a fire, and took some of the temple meat to camp to eat ourselves.
-The rest went to the 100 or so people who came to the carcass with knives, hatchets and machetes.
-The ants got the puddle of grease they left behind.

But I'm sure you know how all this works since you one time clapped an elk out of a pivot field with a guy who's dad once lived in Africa.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Ever since reading Ian Nychens' Months of the Sun I've wanted to hunt a tuskless cow in the Zambezi Valley.

 

[Desk Pop]

Ever since reading Ian Nychens' Months of the Sun I've wanted to hunt a tuskless cow in the Zambezi Valley.

Great book.

The Zambezi Valley is awesome. Do it!

It's wild, free, unmanicured and one of my favorite places on Earth.

 

[Desk Pop]

I know it is. My old crew partner who was born in Zimbabwe, lived in S. Africa, and has become one of my best friends over the years, told me zebra was excellent.

His Dad worked extensively in Africa, move to the States and took a position as a prof. of wildlife at Utah State for a while and recently took a position in London working on wildlife issues there. His Uncle is a biologist in Africa and has received some prestigious awards for his work with black rhino's.

So, yeah, I've had some pretty extensive conversations with him about what happens/is happening in Africa. Makes for great conversation while we're hunting elk together every fall.

He wants my wife and I to attend his wedding in December, in S. Africa. Hoping to make that happen and won't be doing any hunting if we go.

I've taken a buddy lion hunting a few times who is a hunting guide in Alaska.

I haven't ever actually hunted Alaska, or even been there, but I guess I know everything there is to know about hunting in Alaska...

 

[BuzzH]

Seems like a shitty thing to assume about everyone who has ever hunted Africa.

I specifically chose a CAMPFIRE concession to hunt elephant in because of the benefits to locals.

I very much cared where the 10,000 pound animal's meat went to.

-The chief got the trunk.
-The CAMPFIRE concession got the skin panels.
-We ate some backstraps at the kill site that I cooked over a fire, and took some of the temple meat to camp to eat ourselves.
-The rest went to the 100 or so people who came to the carcass with knives, hatchets and machetes.
-The ants got the puddle of grease they left behind.

But I'm sure you know how all this works since you one time clapped an elk out of a pivot field with a guy who's dad once lived in Africa.

Next elk I clap out of a pivot will be my first. You sound like you speak from experience?

My friend was born in Zimbabwe, his Dad and Uncle also and still work in wildlife conservation there.

 

[Desk Pop]

It's awesome some African's are employed with peanut wages, all the neck meat they can eat, and a couple pairs of coveralls a year. Really helps out.

It's awesome to have your clothes washed and pressed everyday, being waited on hand and foot, knowing how great a life you're providing for the staff that does all the work on your trophy hunt.

Is what it is, but not my style. The work is 50% of the hunt for me and I don't want others doing it for me. In particular for slave wages.

I like to sleep at night.

This guy's name is Tongai. He is a Zimbabwean tracker. His boss, my PH, stayed a few weeks at my house one winter between hunt shows and told me his yearly earnings. He made just under $8,000USD in tips alone the year I was there in 2015...far more than slave wages.

At the time, Tongai financially supported between 15-20 adult relatives and their children with his well-earned money.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with someone else washing a hunter's clothes being a bad thing. They are paid and tipped to do this in a place where jobs are hard to come by.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Entertaining thread to say the least.

Don't really understand all the personal attacks going on here. I guess we can't have a civilized discussion without folks breaking down to personal attacks to try and "win" their augment...

Is this how presidential debates and campaigns go?

 

[Desk Pop]

The work is 50% of the hunt for me and I don't want others doing it for me. In particular for slave wages.

How do you know how much work goes into an elephant tracking safari?

And why say that anyway?

So it's less work than a typical bighorn sheep or mountain goat hunt, but more work than a typical elk hunt.

But why disparage another hunter, especially when you've never done it? You haven't stood in the thick jess with a herd of cow elephant 12 yards away, so you don't understand anything about this.

I've hunted goats in the Collegiates and two other mountain ranges in central Idaho. I've hunted sheep in the Frank Church, an additional central Idaho range and a 12,000 foot wilderness area in Nevada. I've hunted elk in a lot of nasty stuff in quite a few states. The top five hardest days of those wouldn't crack the top 50 hardest days of lion hunting in terms of work involved and physical effort. So I guess all sheep, goat and elk hunters are all pussies who don't appreciate working hard in a hunt?

 

[BuzzH]

This guy's name is Tongai. He is a Zimbabwean tracker. His boss, my PH, stayed a few weeks at my house one winter between hunt shows and told me his yearly earnings. He made just under $8,000USD in tips alone the year I was there in 2015...far more than slave wages.

At the time, Tongai financially supported between 15-20 adult relatives and their children with his well-earned money.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with someone else washing a hunter's clothes being a bad thing. They are paid and tipped to do this in a place where jobs are hard to come by.

View attachment 321495

So, you hunted there once and have it all figured out.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Nobody is stopping anyone from trophy hunting in Botswana.

Just can't bring you garbage cans and ivory home.

If the ban won’t affect trophy hunting in Botswana then why is the Botswana government so upset? Seems weird. It’s about desired outcomes. Pretty obvious that the desired outcome of the ban is to eliminate Germans from trophy hunting in places like Botswana.

 

[BuzzH]

How do you know how much work goes into an elephant tracking safari?

And why say that anyway?

So it's less work than a typical bighorn sheep or mountain goat hunt, but more work than a typical elk hunt.

But why disparage another hunter, especially when you've never done it? You haven't stood in the thick jess with a herd of cow elephant 12 yards away, so you don't understand anything about this.

I've hunted goats in the Collegiates and two other mountain ranges in central Idaho. I've hunted sheep in the Frank Church, an additional central Idaho range and a 12,000 foot wilderness area in Nevada. I've hunted elk in a lot of nasty stuff in quite a few states. The top five hardest days of those wouldn't crack the top 50 hardest days of lion hunting in terms of work involved and physical effort. So I guess all sheep, goat and elk hunters are all pussies who don't appreciate working hard in a hunt?

Learn to read. I dont need a keeper and dont care to be guided. Not opposed to any of it, just dont pretend what it isn't and be honest with what it is.

 

[BuzzH]

If the ban won’t affect trophy hunting in Botswana then why is the Botswana government so upset? Seems weird. It’s about desired outcomes. Pretty obvious that the desired outcome of the ban is to eliminate Germans from trophy hunting in places like Botswana.

Because Botswana is the only government being honest. They know the only reason foreign hunters go there to hunt is to take home a trophy. The rest is all bullshit. I'll give kudos to @deskpop, he left the whole elephant there. He's still an ass, but I respect that.

It's that simple.

 

[Desk Pop]

So, you hunted there once and have it all figured out.

I've spent about 1/20 to 1/25 of my adult life on African soil, best I can figure.

I've spent time in 20 African countries (18 of them within sub-Saharan Africa, where elephants are hunted.) I've been on eight hunting safaris.

In 2005, while on a three-month trip working in Kibera slum in Kenya, I saw a cute blond in Jomo Kenyatta International Airport, introduced myself, then married her a year and a half later. We go back often, not just for hunting.

I've been in a country who banned the big bad "trophy hunters" and lost 85% of their game because of it.

But you are friends with a guy who has a dad that once worked there so you have it all figured out.

 

[ismith]

Entertaining thread to say the least.

Don't really understand all the personal attacks going on here. I guess we can't have a civilized discussion without folks breaking down to personal attacks to try and "win" their augment...

Is this how presidential debates and campaigns go?

Hey, let’s not make this political

 

[Forkyfinder]

Because Botswana is the only government being honest. They know the only reason foreign hunters go there to hunt is to take home a trophy. The rest is all bullshit. I'll give kudos to @deskpop, he left the whole elephant there. He's still an ass, but I respect that.

It's that simple.

Is it a net benefit or detriment to the wildlife?

 

[BuzzH]

I've spent about 1/20 to 1/25 of my adult life on African soil, best I can figure.

I've spent time in 20 African countries (18 of them within sub-Saharan Africa, where elephants are hunted.) I've been on eight hunting safaris.

In 2005, while on a three-month trip working in Kibera slum in Kenya, I saw a cute blond in Jomo Kenyatta International Airport, introduced myself, then married her a year and a half later. We go back often, not just for hunting.

I've been in a country who banned the big bad "trophy hunters" and lost 85% of their game because of it.

But you are friends with a guy who has a dad that once worked there so you have it all figured out.

I'm sure your awards, wildlife degree, and work in conservation stack up...

 

[Desk Pop]

I'm sure your awards, wildlife degree, and work in conservation stack up...

Well, you once hunted elk with his son, so I guess you're the expert.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I'm sure your awards, wildlife degree, and work in conservation stack up...

Can you make a quick resume somewhere? We'll get a running list of things you are the sole expert on.

Entertaining thread to say the least.

Don't really understand all the personal attacks going on here. I guess we can't have a civilized discussion without folks breaking down to personal attacks to try and "win" their augment...

Is this how presidential debates and campaigns go?

I guess.

I keep trying to understand how or why someone thinks that results of a hunting ban in Africa woukd be good for wildlife.

Its contrary to any evidence ive seen to say the least.

 

[rtraverdavis]

I want all of you to know that my daddy is stronger than your daddy.

 

[BuzzH]

Well, you once hunted elk with his son, so I guess you're the expert.

His nephew, his Dad did extensive work in Kruger, a ton of work on the wildlife in the Henries while a prof. for Utah State. His current job has him answering to the dude living in Buckingham Palace.

Hunt elk with my friend Jess every year.