Gallatin Trail MTN Goat

[SteveE]

Spent a few days trying to find a goat close enough to get a 14 year old on.

Great scenery but the road closures (proposed wilderness) has made this a very tough hunt. This is the one reason I do not support the current push to make everything a wilderness area. How far to we expect a 14 year old kid to pack out a goat. Proud of her her for giving it her best but I worry she will not fill this tag and lose interest due to that.

I killed my goat in this area way back in the day when allowed to ride a 4 wheeler part way in. It was a very challenging hunt then. Wilderness has since moved the take off point out another 3 to 4 miles making this about a 8 mile adventure with thousands of vertical feet to overcome.

Anyway, worked our butts off and found about 8 different goats. Nothing within 2 miles of the farthest she could make it. All we got were some cool scenery photos.









Sorry about the rotation. Technically challenged

 

[mtmiller]

Too bad.

Were to road closures in place when you applied? Hopefully she won't lose interest in hunting. Maybe put her in for areas that are more 14 yo friendly next time. I know there are plenty of people that would prefer to hunt areas you can't drive an ATV to.

Check my numbers, but I don't think Montana is overwhelmed by wilderness designation. Between USFS, BLM and USFWS there are 26.1 million acres in Montana, of that 3.4 is designated wilderness (13%). Not sure where the threshold is, but probably not 13%. Still lots of areas to ride ATV's and 4 wheeled drive pick-ups.

Hopefully it works out and if not, plenty of opportunities for a 14 year old hunter in MT. This weekend she can be hunting ducks with any other youth in the state. Miller....problem solver. ;-)

 

[onpoint]

Interesting post, for a Goat hunting post - I'll leave it at that.
Hope she has more opportunities to enjoy hunting - Montana has a few for kids......

 

[pointingdogsrule]

Beautiful photos. I'm rootin' for the young lady. Not knowing about the area..... are horses an option?

good luck to all
the dog

 

[----]

What Miller said.

Also, if you hike 8 miles into that mountain range, you've walked 5 miles past the goats.

That's an incredible tag, I hope she's able to take advantage of it.

 

[Big Foot]

Great scenery but the road closures (proposed wilderness) has made this a very tough hunt. This is the one reason I do not support the current push to make everything a wilderness area. How far to we expect a 14 year old kid to pack out a goat.

Thanks for sharing the pics and story. What is a reasonable pack out distance for your 14 year old in your mind? I think of goat hunting as one of the most challenging hunts one can do, why would someone expect it to be any different because of a hunters age? i appreciate your posts on this forum and am not trying to pick a fight here. I am just trying to understand the logic behind the statement above.

 

[johnp]

I would try to make some time on my own to cover alot of different areas and see if I could get some closer goats spotted. That way when your daughter has time to hunt again . You may have some good ideas of where she would be good to go as far as packing one out.

 

[tjones]

I don't mean to sound hard here but what did you expect when you put her in for the permit?

Hopefully she hangs in there. Good luck.

 

[Hem]

I don't mean to sound hard here but what did you expect when you put her in for the permit?

Hopefully she hangs in there. Good luck.

yep

 

[BuzzH]

Wow, I'm not sure how to say this without ruffling feathers...but, since I had one of the first 4-5 tags ever issued in this unit...may as well chime in with my thoughts.

1. I've said for years that its a bit irresponsible to apply young hunters for these types of tags. I really wish they would allow a "points only" category for youth hunters, allow them to get points, but not necessarily draw a tag. That way, they're not behind the points curve, but can mature as a hunters when they are more physically able, and have more hunting experience under their belts before drawing these type of tags. I also think parents should really give some serious thought PRIOR to applying youth hunters for these tags. Be realistic and honest, "is my ____ year old really up to this____hunt". I know at 14 years old, a goat hunt would have been very, very difficult for me best case, and perhaps close to impossible. I just didn't have the experience, right attitude, experience, etc. Honestly, I would have had more fun with a pocket full of whitetail or pronghorn doe tags. I needed hunting experience more than a goat tag.

2. When I drew this very tag in 1998, I know there were only 2 permits issued that year, and there were 2 tags issued in 1997. I cant recall if there was a single tag issued in 96...there may have been, but I just don't recall. Those were the first tags ever issued for the unit. I know that in 97 I saw 2 big billies and that's what prompted me to apply in 98. I hunted those 2 particular goats the first 10 days of the season, as I found out later I was hunting "ghosts" as both were killed in 97.

All this leads to the comment about "way back in the day I could ride my 4 wheeler"...when I drew in 98, there weren't many people with 4 wheelers, and I know that the goats occupied a very small portion of the unit. None of it was accessible by 4 wheeler where the goats were. "Way back in the day" 16-17 years ago, for this unit, you had to either hike or ride a horse. The stuff I hunted, horses weren't an option for most of it, no motorized access at all.

3. I don't believe that goat hunts are supposed to be easy or even easier. I think they should be hard, separate the folks that think they want a goat from those that actually do.

4. Due diligence prior to applying is necessary. It wears me out when hunters draw tags, then are shocked, AFTER THEY DRAW, that the hunt or tag isn't what they expected. The complaining is really tiresome, whether its an area that's tough physically, has limited public access, very little public land, etc. etc. Your placing blame on the land management agency that is required to address travel plans, held public meetings to address mechanized travel, etc.. Your lack of due diligence isn't their problem, isn't a problem because of wilderness designation, or the problem of an updated travel plan. Its YOUR problem...own it and move on.

5. Goats, IMO, symbolize rugged, tough to reach places...as well as wilderness and all that goes with it. I truly hope goat hunting doesn't ever turn into a rest your rifle off the seat of an ATV hunt, ever. I found a lot more, and got a lot more from that country, and hunt, than just a goat. Exactly what I wanted to experience. Its not every hunt that you get to follow a wolverine track up a knife ridge, in fresh snow in early October. Its not every hunt, when you wake up, walk 30 yards from your tent on a solo hunt and cut 3 fresh grizzly tracks in the snow that fell while you were sleeping.

I really hope you find a better attitude about this hunt and also a great goat that your girl can get to and take. It will be worth the effort, with or without a goat.

Good luck.

 

[JBS]

SteveE
I agree with Miller.
There are lots of access points to that unit with goats viable from the road. As for as the road closures I hope that is not discouraging as the closures may very well be the reason the population has grown enough to double the permits given out about 3 years ago.
Your daughter may just not be that into hunting at this point in her life. I would encourage you to give her every opportunity and resource that you can but keep in mind this is her hunt and she should define it.
Good luck with the hunt.
JBS

 

[sneakypete]

Don't give up! Just wondering if you thought of horses or a packer to pack you and your daughter in farther? Good luck!

 

[James Riley]

I agree with the others.

Also, a lesson I learned but still fail to apply in life, even though I know better, is this: How I feel about something is picked up on by my son, even if I don't overtly say anything. He gets what I'm feeling. Kids sense these things and they are very intuitive. Makes me want to try real hard to not be a cynic because it can bring him to where I am at on what he otherwise would have thought of as a great experience.

I once soured on a place because quads were ruining it and he sensed that, even though he had previously noticed nothing but Ma Nature. I should have focused on Her.

Hopefully your daughter had a wonderful time with dad in awesome country and is prepared to double down after finding out that hunting is just that: hunting.

 

[Lawnboy]

Also, if you hike 8 miles into that mountain range, you've walked 5 miles past the goats.

.

This^^^^^
Like others have said it will be a challenge for any age level but you don't need to go to windy pass to find goats. Is Hyalite in that unit? Head North of the cabin but hang on the west side of the ridge. Lots of goats

 

[RobG]

About a half dozen years before that goat was a gleam in Buzz's eye some friends and I looped around Hidden to Eaglehead and back out Windy Pass. At the Golden Trout trailhead we met a lady getting out of the car. She had greasy mouse colored hair, a flabby body and was smoking a cigarette. She was so out of shape she was breathing hard from the drive up. She said she liked to stay in the forest service cabins and she wanted to know how difficult the hike to the Windy Pass cabin was. We told her it would take about two packs of cigs to get up there and two strong men with a gurney to get back down. No we didn't actually say that, but we thought it as we told her it was probably not a place for her.

Even back then the crest made a huge impression on me. And as I explore it more it gets even better. It is unique and I hope some day they can protect it permanently. If I were you I'd go get a collection permit from the GNF and go up Tom Miner towards Ramshorn peak and together find some cool pieces of petrified wood and jasper and whatever all those cool rocks are. Or I think you can go motorized up Porcupine Cr. Maybe you will see a goat and shoot it, or maybe you won't, but it will be a memorable trip.

Enjoy her while you can. I've taken my daughter up there twice at 13 and 14, but this year she's more interested in her friends than hiking. I'm giving her a necklace made from one of the rocks we found so I can ask her every year where it came from.

 

[El Jason]

It's a bummer that your daughter is so down, however I agree in that many young folks don't have the mental fortitude for goat hunting. Also, I agree in that you are maybe looking in the wrong part of the unit? Last time I was up there I saw a ton of goats, but none were down near Windy Pass.

I think goat hunting certainly falls in the category of the cool experience of getting to do it, with harvest very secondary. Hopefully your daughter can see this experience for what it is. Hunting pheasants in a CRP field is something I *expect* to harvest something. Not so much when it becomes a rugged wilderness experience. Sometimes we need to be okay with "failure" and appreciate the fact that we got to take part in the experience.

In all honesty, when I drew my goat tag at age 27, I could have used about 10 more years of hunting experience to truly appreciate it for what it was.

It disappoints me that buyers remorse on a goat tag would cause someone to view wilderness areas with a jaundiced eye. Perhaps a heart to heart with your daughter about her expectations AND yours is in order, then you can make a plan from there. You have plenty of season left. Load up the backpacks and make an adventure out of it.

 

[onpoint]

Some of the more thoughtful post responses I have seen showed up on this one.

 

[MTGomer]

Can you go a few miles per day, and camp? kind of breaking up the length of hike? Can someone with horses drop you off back there?
I hunted alot when I was 14, and I think I could go about as far as I can now, I just couldn't do it with the same weight on my back, which makes camping challenging of course.

Hope she gets her goat.

 

[SteveE]

I should have included more background but was in a hurry.

This is a friends daughter. I just volunteered to help cause I love the country and like to see the kids involved!

You COULD ride a 4 wheeler into a certain drainage back in the day. Packed 3 goats out of this drainage on one. Here is the proof. I have others too if you dont believe me lol



Never felt the area was overcrowded - ever. I actually ran into more hikers (a whooping five)on this single trip then all of the three hunts I did when you could ride in. I remember one time I watched a pack string heading up big creek. Never saw another goat hunter. Not sure that would be the case with todays population.

The five mile comments are funny. Five miles on your computer is a heck of a lot more then 8 miles on the ground humping it. I recorded my hike. Started at trailhead, hit eagleshead swung back to cabin then hit all 3 peaks of Sentinel turning around at the huge drainage south of storm castle. I'm 100% positive I didnt "walk past" the goats and 100% positive I went more then 5 miles you computer jockeys.



This is the drainage north of sentinel with that little white speck being a goat. Prob another 1 mile from me. I'm sitting on the farthest sentinel peak. The girl was about 1 mile behind me with blisters. Closes goat I found but definately out of her reach.

I also don't think a goat hunt should be easy. It was not an easy hunt when you could ride part way in.

MtGomer - that is the issue. Once we get everyone loaded with camping/hunting gear the weight kills her off quick. Her Dad and I took the majority of it but you know how it is. Horses really are the only answer here or just get lucky and have the goats in a good spot. They don't own horses.

The question of should a kid be allowed to goat hunt is an interesting topic. Just my opinion but I prefered the old days - SOME access so it was possible for kids - not just horsebackers or superhikers.

Just one guys opinion.

 

[El Jason]

I know that Buzz and I have different opinions on young hunters, and I don't think that kids should be prevented from hunting the big 3. I do think it's a parent's responsibility to know their kids and what they can handle. Personally I would never put my daughter in for a goat tag. There is no way that she will fully appreciate the opportunity or the experience at this point in life. Maybe a different goat unit should have been chosen?