FWP being systematically dismantled

[SAJ-99]

if good relations is asking for landowner permission to access federal public land with legal public access then i don't want good relations.

that's a lopsided "good" if you ask me.

At best, I could see it as giving them the courtesy of informing them I will be accessing the land in case they see me out there. Asking for permission that isn't needed is just asking for a problem.

 

[Forkyfinder]

At best, I could see it as giving them the courtesy of informing them I will be accessing the land in case they see me out there. Asking for permission that isn't needed is just asking for a problem.

I think asking permission to access accessible public land is the best symptom to highlight the disease.

 

[Nameless Range]

At best, I could see it as giving them the courtesy of informing them I will be accessing the land in case they see me out there. Asking for permission that isn't needed is just asking for a problem.

On BLM it’s one thing, but you should never ask permission to access a road with unrecorded easement or public availability in question, as it can set a precedent and serve as evidence in the future when that road’s status is adjudicated.

 

[Forkyfinder]

On BLM it’s one thing, but you should never ask permission to access a road with unrecorded easement or public availability in question, as it can set a precedent and serve as evidence in the future when that road’s status is adjudicated.

How does this happen, legally?

Its beyond me the county can build a road - maintain it years and then a landowner can pillage the road and access later.

 

[Eric Albus]

Ive heard incorrectly from someone who works there, apparently.

Is that in a policy somewhere?

I’d certainly be interested to know what and who is getting FWP assistance if the property isn’t open to public access. Feel free to PM me, cause nobody is supposed to get a dime if they aren’t allowing near unlimited access.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I’d certainly be interested to know what and who is getting FWP assistance if the property isn’t open to public access. Feel free to PM me, cause nobody is supposed to get a dime if they aren’t allowing near unlimited access.

Sent.

 

[Wildabeest]

How does this happen, legally?

It varies by state, but in UT you would need to show that the access was continuous for 20 years or more, it has to be “open and notorious” which basically means it wasn’t hidden or secret, and it has to be “adverse” which means without specific consent of the landowner. Montana seems to have similar criteria, but the continuous use requirement is only 5 years.

 

[Nameless Range]

How does this happen, legally?

Its beyond me the county can build a road - maintain it years and then a landowner can pillage the road and access later.

I can think of two roads within 10 miles of the house I grew up in that were public my entire childhood that are now private.

One was considered a county Road, was on the county gas tax roll, and had a history of county maintenance. The other was a USFS road.

The fight for those roads is dependent on a lot of things I won’t claim to be an expert on: the appetite a county attorney has for fighting for the public, the money they have available, the case they think they have, etc. Montana’s counties are now filled with certain residents who have much larger budgets than their county attorneys office, and county attorney offices are spread thin as hell in a lot of instances.

In the case of that forest service road, when the controversy spun up I was told by the district ranger that they considered it public and were going to fight for it. When I followed up a year later, they felt that they didn’t have a case, and the fact that the parcel through which that road went was once enrolled in block management that required sign in to use the road hurt their case . When I really dug into that situation, I actually sympathized a bit with the landowners who shut it down. They were told certain things would happen that never did.

I think it’s complicated, and aside from a frighteningly small number of organizations like PLWA, it’s up to the vigilance of counties and their citizens. So many roads we use every day to access public lands don’t have recorded access at the local clerk and recorders office.

 

[peterk1234]

It varies by state, but in UT you would need to show that the access was continuous for 20 years or more, it has to be “open and notorious” which basically means it wasn’t hidden or secret, and it has to be “adverse” which means without specific consent of the landowner. Montana seems to have similar criteria, but the continuous use requirement is only 5 years.

Adverse Possession

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

FWP does not reimburse landowners for game damage with $$. The closest it comes is materials (stack yards, fence). Per statute that landowner has to allow free public access and the bio/warden that work on a particular complaint need to document that.

Also, a landowner may qualify one year and not the next, things change year to year.

I didn't mean they get money directly, its not like a payout to them. They get the materials and sometimes the man power to put up those fences. It costs money to put up fences though.

 

[Shed God]

What did we expect with governor gianforte.

 

[Shed God]

I didn't vote for him and will not. But we have had alot of different governors and fwp officials. And in my opionin none of them did what is best for wildlife on public land.

 

[MTLabrador]

The Bair Ranch BMA borders some state parcels that would only be accessible via corner otherwise. Their BMA rules say specifically that a hunter isn't allowed to use the BMA to access the state sections. Effectively closing off all access. Mildly infuriating to be sure. Didn't even bother with trying to use their BMA as I didn't want them to get any money from the FWP from my signing in.

Even more infuriating was when their "ranch manager" tried to tell us we couldn't hunt another state section that was accessible from the road because they held a grazing lease and an outfitter held a hunting lease for the section. I politely told him he was full of it and that neither precluded me from using the section as I saw fit. I hollered at DNRC when I got back from that trip and was told they'd remind Bair of land use rules.

In fact, I encourage everyone to go hunt the chit out of section 18 in Wheatland County.

That old railroad bed along the highway there pisses me off every time I drive by it. Insane that it blocks access to the state land and that you can’t cross over from the BMA.