Enviros vs. ranchers: Fat cats win
- Thread starter Michaelr
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Mike, what 1-pointer said.
Here is an example of what elkie is talking about, More bullshit!!!! looks to me like they have dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's and it still aint good enough!!!
OR: Four environmental groups sue to stop timber sale
Associated Press
Published 01. 20. 03 at 21:55 Sierra Time
MEDFORD, Ore. (AP) -- Four environmental groups have filed a lawsuit to stop a Bureau of Land Management timber sale, which they say would harm fragile plants and devalue views from the popular Rogue River.
But BLM officials deny the Pickett Snake Timber Sale will hurt rare lilies or mar the panoramic views from the Rogue.
The groups went to the courts because the environmental assessment done to justify the logging calls for plant buffers the agency hasn't proven will work, said staff attorney Brenna Bell of the Klamath-Siskiyou Wildlands Center.
"The BLM is saying just sit back, trust us, we know what were doing," Bell said Friday. "Well, look around us. You can see what happens when we trust them."
Abby Jossie, field manager for the BLM's Grants Pass Resource Area, said the planned logging complies with the Endangered Species Act, previously accepted plans for managing sensitive plants and a specific plan for protecting views from the Wild and Scenic section of the Rogue.
The suit was filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Medford, and was assigned to Judge John Cooney.
Along with the Klamath-Siskiyou Wildlands Center, the other plaintiffs are the Siskiyou Regional Education Project, Headwaters and the Oregon Natural Resources Council.
The Pickett Snake sale calls for cutting 7.5 million board feet of timber over 1,116 acres, using a mix of cable, tractor and helicopter logging methods.
The project would require no new permanent roads, but about one-third of a mile of temporary road would be built, said Steve Reed, the BLM's Medford District manager.
Swanson-Superior Lumber Co. of Glendale bought the sale at a July auction for $837,894.35.
Plans call for removing trees with diameters ranging from 8 inches to 54 inches, but 90 percent of the volume will come from trees 20 inches thick or less, said Jossie.
Bell said her group was especially concerned about the impacts of logging to the clustered ladyslipper and Mountain ladyslipper, two sensitive plants that need thick forest overhang to protect them from the sun.
OR: Four environmental groups sue to stop timber sale
Associated Press
Published 01. 20. 03 at 21:55 Sierra Time
MEDFORD, Ore. (AP) -- Four environmental groups have filed a lawsuit to stop a Bureau of Land Management timber sale, which they say would harm fragile plants and devalue views from the popular Rogue River.
But BLM officials deny the Pickett Snake Timber Sale will hurt rare lilies or mar the panoramic views from the Rogue.
The groups went to the courts because the environmental assessment done to justify the logging calls for plant buffers the agency hasn't proven will work, said staff attorney Brenna Bell of the Klamath-Siskiyou Wildlands Center.
"The BLM is saying just sit back, trust us, we know what were doing," Bell said Friday. "Well, look around us. You can see what happens when we trust them."
Abby Jossie, field manager for the BLM's Grants Pass Resource Area, said the planned logging complies with the Endangered Species Act, previously accepted plans for managing sensitive plants and a specific plan for protecting views from the Wild and Scenic section of the Rogue.
The suit was filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Medford, and was assigned to Judge John Cooney.
Along with the Klamath-Siskiyou Wildlands Center, the other plaintiffs are the Siskiyou Regional Education Project, Headwaters and the Oregon Natural Resources Council.
The Pickett Snake sale calls for cutting 7.5 million board feet of timber over 1,116 acres, using a mix of cable, tractor and helicopter logging methods.
The project would require no new permanent roads, but about one-third of a mile of temporary road would be built, said Steve Reed, the BLM's Medford District manager.
Swanson-Superior Lumber Co. of Glendale bought the sale at a July auction for $837,894.35.
Plans call for removing trees with diameters ranging from 8 inches to 54 inches, but 90 percent of the volume will come from trees 20 inches thick or less, said Jossie.
Bell said her group was especially concerned about the impacts of logging to the clustered ladyslipper and Mountain ladyslipper, two sensitive plants that need thick forest overhang to protect them from the sun.
HAHAHAHA!!!!!
Buzz!!! You’re a riot...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Elkchsr, it would seem to me that your buddies are still working. There's plenty of loggers, miners, etc. still making plenty of profit. . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It used to be that you could go into any bar or restaurant and pick up a few crews and go to work...Now, you can't hardly find a good logging crew, even if you call every one you know and then some...So that is a blatant untruth!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> So you have to do a little more paper work or jump through a few more hoops. Big freaking deal.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You do understand full well that there is only so much money to be made off raw products, there is one thing about a little more paper work, but I know from experience how much it takes, and just because you get a pay check whether you actually do any thing or sit in your office twiddling your pencil, doesn't mean the rest of the world had this luxury. This same statement reminds me of a story about a princes or a queen that was so out of touch with reality I believe it was in France, that she had no idea that if the peasants couldn't afford bread than they should just eat cake. You remind me of this same individual every time you post "Stuff" like this....
You never can see what any one say's except your little narrow perception of the world, and it is very very narrow...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Your bitch seems to be that logging and mining should be done as it was 30 years ago. Bullshit, thats a big steaming load of it too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can't find and won't find, one post stating that I wish every thing to be back the way it was...
You need to unplug your ears, and open your eyes to what is printed almost every day right in front of you on this board. Not run along in another world only blindly seeing that which does not exist…
The companies that are in business, if you haven't noticed, well I know you haven't because of this very shallow statement.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> For those companies that comply and play the game, theres still plenty of profit, or they wouldnt be in business.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are in business because they already have the ground, they are also diversified into other things that have nothing to do with logging and mining, the profits just aren’t there. There is a lot of little guy's that are working for some money, but not lots. Plus the big ones are spread out and have the means to use the wood along with harvesting it, same as the miners in their fields..
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Your argument is totally old-school and "why cant things stay the same" type attitude. It doesnt fly anymore, and rightfully so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And what has new school got us, lots of national debt, plus all the socialism that we can hardly stand. What exactly is new school any way? And what does it do in reality to help this country.
Besides, I have never as stated above on one of my posts ever said that I was willing to go back to exactly the way the old ways were done...
You can be so silly some times that it is really pretty funny!!!But not much more...: D
Buzz!!! You’re a riot...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Elkchsr, it would seem to me that your buddies are still working. There's plenty of loggers, miners, etc. still making plenty of profit. . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It used to be that you could go into any bar or restaurant and pick up a few crews and go to work...Now, you can't hardly find a good logging crew, even if you call every one you know and then some...So that is a blatant untruth!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> So you have to do a little more paper work or jump through a few more hoops. Big freaking deal.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You do understand full well that there is only so much money to be made off raw products, there is one thing about a little more paper work, but I know from experience how much it takes, and just because you get a pay check whether you actually do any thing or sit in your office twiddling your pencil, doesn't mean the rest of the world had this luxury. This same statement reminds me of a story about a princes or a queen that was so out of touch with reality I believe it was in France, that she had no idea that if the peasants couldn't afford bread than they should just eat cake. You remind me of this same individual every time you post "Stuff" like this....
You never can see what any one say's except your little narrow perception of the world, and it is very very narrow...
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Your bitch seems to be that logging and mining should be done as it was 30 years ago. Bullshit, thats a big steaming load of it too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can't find and won't find, one post stating that I wish every thing to be back the way it was...
You need to unplug your ears, and open your eyes to what is printed almost every day right in front of you on this board. Not run along in another world only blindly seeing that which does not exist…
The companies that are in business, if you haven't noticed, well I know you haven't because of this very shallow statement.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> For those companies that comply and play the game, theres still plenty of profit, or they wouldnt be in business.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are in business because they already have the ground, they are also diversified into other things that have nothing to do with logging and mining, the profits just aren’t there. There is a lot of little guy's that are working for some money, but not lots. Plus the big ones are spread out and have the means to use the wood along with harvesting it, same as the miners in their fields..
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Your argument is totally old-school and "why cant things stay the same" type attitude. It doesnt fly anymore, and rightfully so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And what has new school got us, lots of national debt, plus all the socialism that we can hardly stand. What exactly is new school any way? And what does it do in reality to help this country.
Besides, I have never as stated above on one of my posts ever said that I was willing to go back to exactly the way the old ways were done...
You can be so silly some times that it is really pretty funny!!!But not much more...: D
BuzzH
Well-known member
Elkchsr, all I can say is bitch all you want, but thats the way business is being done in 2003. So either get used to it or shut up.
Oh, and on the national debt, ask GW. By the way did you send your $300 dollar check back to help it out?
I also talked to my Dad the other day and apparently somebody is still cutting trees as the logyard where he works is plumb freaking full. Last time I was by Deerlodge, about a month ago, the LP logyard wasnt in short supply either. My buddies who work at Stone Container and LP in Missoula also claim to be gainfully employed, must be a miracle. Maybe those trees were cut and hauled by ghosts...its the only theory I can come up with if I believe you.
Are you for real?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-24-2003 21:26: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
Oh, and on the national debt, ask GW. By the way did you send your $300 dollar check back to help it out?
I also talked to my Dad the other day and apparently somebody is still cutting trees as the logyard where he works is plumb freaking full. Last time I was by Deerlodge, about a month ago, the LP logyard wasnt in short supply either. My buddies who work at Stone Container and LP in Missoula also claim to be gainfully employed, must be a miracle. Maybe those trees were cut and hauled by ghosts...its the only theory I can come up with if I believe you.
Are you for real?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-24-2003 21:26: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>
MarlandS
New member
All the labor fields are running short on help, most are moving to easier jobs, jobs away from the weather, jobs with less chanc of getting hurt, jobs where they can stay clean.
We can't even find people to fill the slots we have available in the busy times with college kids.
What do the various jobs in the logging industry pay?
We can't even find people to fill the slots we have available in the busy times with college kids.
What do the various jobs in the logging industry pay?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Marland, I think the salary depends on location, etc.
I know in MT most mills pay a pretty good wage. I'd say the average is 30-40K a year, but some mills pay quite a bit better than that.
On the actual logging end of things, I'd say they probably do about the same. My Dads neighbor hauled logs (owned his own truck) and was grossing 100k+ a year, but he busted his ass and hustled work non-stop. He'd put in 16+ hour days, at least 6 days a week. Five-six days of hauling logs, and one day doing maintenance on his truck.
Theres still people making a lot of money in the timber industry in MT.
I know in MT most mills pay a pretty good wage. I'd say the average is 30-40K a year, but some mills pay quite a bit better than that.
On the actual logging end of things, I'd say they probably do about the same. My Dads neighbor hauled logs (owned his own truck) and was grossing 100k+ a year, but he busted his ass and hustled work non-stop. He'd put in 16+ hour days, at least 6 days a week. Five-six days of hauling logs, and one day doing maintenance on his truck.
Theres still people making a lot of money in the timber industry in MT.
HMmmmm!!! I'm looking here, nope-no bitching here, just stating facts, just like you like!!! Unlike the posts you put up, Buzz, your really starting to sound like your going over the edge!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Elkchsr, all I can say is bitch all you want, but thats the way business is being done in 2003. So either get used to it or shut up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's see, on this point, I don't remember helping create all of this debt, have you sent your check in??? Besides, what has this got to do with the topic at hand or any thing we have "EVER" discussed on the boards, been here over a year, and never seen a thread having to deal with every one paying the debt down, Buzz, your losing it.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Oh, and on the national debt, ask GW. By the way did you send your $300 dollar check back to help it out? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just as I thought, I know I'm not getting Alzheimer’s, I just can't recall saying that there was no logging or mining!!! Matter of fact, I know I didn't!!! Another big-big fib on your part, shame on you!!! The mill at Deerlodge is always full this time of the year, why don't you give it a try say around August!!! LMAO!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I also talked to my Dad the other day and apparently somebody is still cutting trees as the logyard where he works is plumb freaking full. Last time I was by Deerlodge, about a month ago, the LP logyard wasnt in short supply either. My buddies who work at Stone Container and LP in Missoula also claim to be gainfully employed, must be a miracle. Maybe those trees were cut and hauled by ghosts...its the only theory I can come up with if I believe you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One of us isn't living in reality and I can certainly say it's not me that has the issue problem...HAHAHAHAHA!!!!ROFLMAO!!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Are you for real? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are just way to easy!!!
This is true, but you didn't read my last post, the number of guy's doing this is getting farther and farther in-between. Buzz, you are the smart one here. Why is it that most of the log yards around have been shutting down? I know the answer, but do you!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Theres still people making a lot of money in the timber industry in MT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Elkchsr, all I can say is bitch all you want, but thats the way business is being done in 2003. So either get used to it or shut up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's see, on this point, I don't remember helping create all of this debt, have you sent your check in??? Besides, what has this got to do with the topic at hand or any thing we have "EVER" discussed on the boards, been here over a year, and never seen a thread having to deal with every one paying the debt down, Buzz, your losing it.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Oh, and on the national debt, ask GW. By the way did you send your $300 dollar check back to help it out? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just as I thought, I know I'm not getting Alzheimer’s, I just can't recall saying that there was no logging or mining!!! Matter of fact, I know I didn't!!! Another big-big fib on your part, shame on you!!! The mill at Deerlodge is always full this time of the year, why don't you give it a try say around August!!! LMAO!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I also talked to my Dad the other day and apparently somebody is still cutting trees as the logyard where he works is plumb freaking full. Last time I was by Deerlodge, about a month ago, the LP logyard wasnt in short supply either. My buddies who work at Stone Container and LP in Missoula also claim to be gainfully employed, must be a miracle. Maybe those trees were cut and hauled by ghosts...its the only theory I can come up with if I believe you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One of us isn't living in reality and I can certainly say it's not me that has the issue problem...HAHAHAHAHA!!!!ROFLMAO!!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Are you for real? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are just way to easy!!!
This is true, but you didn't read my last post, the number of guy's doing this is getting farther and farther in-between. Buzz, you are the smart one here. Why is it that most of the log yards around have been shutting down? I know the answer, but do you!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Theres still people making a lot of money in the timber industry in MT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Elkchsr-
You posted that the companies that are making it are because they are diversified which allows them to be flexible. That's great!! All businesses have to do that to stay successful, the logging industry is no exception. Blaming environmentalists for the logging industry's woes is misguided. Maybe the fact that it was accepted practice to take everything and leave the place a shit hole had something to do with it. Now, people aren't just gonna let that happen. Sure, many of the lawsuits are 'over the top'. But, how cynical would you be if you owned something, let someone else use it and they trashed it? Would you let them borrow something else without strict provisions? Granted, the public is fickle and someday if wood gets expensive enough people will want to start hacking down trees again.
You posted that the companies that are making it are because they are diversified which allows them to be flexible. That's great!! All businesses have to do that to stay successful, the logging industry is no exception. Blaming environmentalists for the logging industry's woes is misguided. Maybe the fact that it was accepted practice to take everything and leave the place a shit hole had something to do with it. Now, people aren't just gonna let that happen. Sure, many of the lawsuits are 'over the top'. But, how cynical would you be if you owned something, let someone else use it and they trashed it? Would you let them borrow something else without strict provisions? Granted, the public is fickle and someday if wood gets expensive enough people will want to start hacking down trees again.
Tyler!
The thing with this whole issue is that it is very unfounded that any one will be just "Hacking" down trees, this is not what is done, and it is a poor choice of words you used, hacking down strongly implies that some one is just walking around cutting down these trees with no intent on using them in any way other than for their entertainment on watching them hit the ground, wonton destruction. This is not the case and never has been. Wholesale cutting of the forests have happened in the past, no one any where that I have met or talked to, condones this practice any more, it is only the radical left that keeps beating the drum, trying to make out that this is the only purpose of the logging industry, truth is, its not, and to even imply in any way any such untruths is nothing more than a blatant out and out lie!!!
The thing with this whole issue is that it is very unfounded that any one will be just "Hacking" down trees, this is not what is done, and it is a poor choice of words you used, hacking down strongly implies that some one is just walking around cutting down these trees with no intent on using them in any way other than for their entertainment on watching them hit the ground, wonton destruction. This is not the case and never has been. Wholesale cutting of the forests have happened in the past, no one any where that I have met or talked to, condones this practice any more, it is only the radical left that keeps beating the drum, trying to make out that this is the only purpose of the logging industry, truth is, its not, and to even imply in any way any such untruths is nothing more than a blatant out and out lie!!!
Yes, but why should we let the prices of this renewable resource cost every one more $$$ when it is totally unnecessary in the first place. Just to remind them how good they actually have it… Don't get me wrong on this one now, when the prices go up, then it is very good for those that are left to do the work getting it out, but this is a very unneeded process that shouldn't happen in the first place!!!
BuzzH
Well-known member
Elkchsr said, "The thing with this whole issue is that it is very unfounded that any one will be just "Hacking" down trees, this is not what is done, and it is a poor choice of words you used, hacking down strongly implies that some one is just walking around cutting down these trees with no intent on using them in any way other than for their entertainment on watching them hit the ground, wonton destruction"
Holy shit, I cant believe you would say something that crazy. Have you taken a look at any plum creek timber sales lately? What a goddamn mess, so bad they have to gate all their roads to keep the public out, so nobody sees the huge freaking clearcuts and total mess. How the hell can you be serious?
They do hack down every tree, thats a fact.
Look, I cant and dont really care what they do to their lands. Well, let me restate that, I do care, but there isnt anything I or anyone else can do about it. But, I'm also not afraid to tell it like it is. They have the crappiest, most pathetic timber management program I've ever seen, absolutely sucks. Most of their land is totally stripped of timber.
I'll tell you what Elkchsr, if you wont believe me about Plum Creek, go talk to my friend Brian Robbins, he lives right in Anaconda. He's a forester with the State of Montana and worked for Plum Creek as a Forester for 3-4 years. We went to grade school through college together, he's a damn good hand. He's easy to locate he works right there in the State office in Anaconda, tell him I said hi, while you're in there eating your words about how nobody just "hacks" down the trees.
Holy shit, I cant believe you would say something that crazy. Have you taken a look at any plum creek timber sales lately? What a goddamn mess, so bad they have to gate all their roads to keep the public out, so nobody sees the huge freaking clearcuts and total mess. How the hell can you be serious?
They do hack down every tree, thats a fact.
Look, I cant and dont really care what they do to their lands. Well, let me restate that, I do care, but there isnt anything I or anyone else can do about it. But, I'm also not afraid to tell it like it is. They have the crappiest, most pathetic timber management program I've ever seen, absolutely sucks. Most of their land is totally stripped of timber.
I'll tell you what Elkchsr, if you wont believe me about Plum Creek, go talk to my friend Brian Robbins, he lives right in Anaconda. He's a forester with the State of Montana and worked for Plum Creek as a Forester for 3-4 years. We went to grade school through college together, he's a damn good hand. He's easy to locate he works right there in the State office in Anaconda, tell him I said hi, while you're in there eating your words about how nobody just "hacks" down the trees.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Holy shit, I cant believe you would say something that crazy. Have you taken a look at any plum creek timber sales lately? What a goddamn mess, so bad they have to gate all their roads to keep the public out, so nobody sees the huge freaking clearcuts and total mess. How the hell can you be serious? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I bet you won't find much usable timber in the area left laying on the ground!!! LMAO
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> They do hack down every tree, thats a fact. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you find out if the state mandated it, or if they just did it on their own, I know Washington State has final say on exactly how a piece of ground gets cut, no matter what the actual owners would like to do it..
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Look, I cant and dont really care what they do to their lands. Well, let me restate that, I do care, but there isnt anything I or anyone else can do about it. But, I'm also not afraid to tell it like it is. They have the crappiest, most pathetic timber management program I've ever seen, absolutely sucks. Most of their land is totally stripped of timber. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then if most of their land is stripped of timber, then they should soon be out of business, it takes to long to grow them back to make it profitable. You don't think a lot of that mountain ground will be bought up by out of staters wanting a piece of heaven… LOL..
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I'll tell you what Elkchsr, if you wont believe me about Plum Creek, go talk to my friend Brian Robbins, he lives right in Anaconda. He's a forester with the State of Montana and worked for Plum Creek as a Forester for 3-4 years. We went to grade school through college together, he's a damn good hand. He's easy to locate he works right there in the State office in Anaconda, tell him I said hi, while you're in there eating your words about how nobody just "hacks" down the trees. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unlike you, I don't just step into places and start this ranting you seem to be so fond of, if I did go in and talk to the man, it would be civil and done with a little diplomacy, I don't go around cussing and swinging a stick trying to get my point across..
Being as he has had only 3-4 years, he is still new to the game any way!!!
I may just do that, when I get a few minutes..
Can't right now, have to many irons in the fire, but as of right now, am seriously thinking on it....
Muledeer4me
New member
Elkchsr,very good post's.
As far as alot of logging jobs still being around Hell thats a laugh.
All anyone needs to do is come take a look at some of our small town that have all but dried up,mills closed ,people out of work.
Even towns close to good fishing & hunting still arent bring in enough work flipping burgers and renting horses to help pick up the slack .
"Blaming environmentalists for the logging industry's woes is misguided. Maybe the fact that it was accepted practice to take everything and leave the place a shit hole had something to do with it. Now, people aren't just gonna let that happen. Sure, many of the lawsuits are 'over the top'. But, how cynical would you be if you owned something, let someone else use it and they trashed it?"
OH Please,not every logging company does this,but it is a good tactic to use LOL same one alot of the anti-groups use when trying to convince others to jump on there band wagon of,
(All the Rancher,All the ATV riders,All the loggers,All the hunters do or act like this)
Thats rates right up there in truth as if I was to say that( ALL College students know nothing about the real world but only mimic whats being fed to them by there too liberal
treehugger leanning professors) dont ya think ?
Please tell me we would both be wrong 1Pointer!!!!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-25-2003 20:06: Message edited by: Muledeer4me ]</font>
As far as alot of logging jobs still being around Hell thats a laugh.
All anyone needs to do is come take a look at some of our small town that have all but dried up,mills closed ,people out of work.
Even towns close to good fishing & hunting still arent bring in enough work flipping burgers and renting horses to help pick up the slack .
"Blaming environmentalists for the logging industry's woes is misguided. Maybe the fact that it was accepted practice to take everything and leave the place a shit hole had something to do with it. Now, people aren't just gonna let that happen. Sure, many of the lawsuits are 'over the top'. But, how cynical would you be if you owned something, let someone else use it and they trashed it?"
(All the Rancher,All the ATV riders,All the loggers,All the hunters do or act like this)
Thats rates right up there in truth as if I was to say that( ALL College students know nothing about the real world but only mimic whats being fed to them by there too liberal
treehugger leanning professors) dont ya think ?
Please tell me we would both be wrong 1Pointer!!!!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-25-2003 20:06: Message edited by: Muledeer4me ]</font>
MD- I never said that was the current practice nor did I say all companies did it. What I did say was the practice was more accepted then than now. Society isn't going to stand for it now.
You could say that about college students and you could believe that it was true. That still wouldn't change the fact it is those people that will be making MOST ALL the decisions in the future!!!
You don't think their are any professors on industry payrolls?
You could say that about college students and you could believe that it was true. That still wouldn't change the fact it is those people that will be making MOST ALL the decisions in the future!!!
Ithaca 37
New member
The problem in Idaho was over harvest in the 80s and early 90s. Even if no environmentalists had never been born they would have run out of harvestable timber by now. You have to understand the National Forest Management Act to understand that fact. Environmentalists make handy scapegoats for the timber industry and many people are so uninformed about the true facts they believe whatever Boise Cascade tells them.
The environmentalists warned that they were harvesting at an unsustainable rate in the 80s and the timber workers didn't believe them. Now thay know it's true.
The environmentalists warned that they were harvesting at an unsustainable rate in the 80s and the timber workers didn't believe them. Now thay know it's true.
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