JoseCuervo
New member
Let me guess, Dubya now exploiting dead WTC victims is just a "change of opinion", and not a "flip-flop"? It is great to see that Dubya is already using images of Firemen and flag draped stretchers for his political gain... 
Dubya Exploits Dead WTC Victims for Re-Election
- Thread starter JoseCuervo
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JoseCuervo
New member
BuzzH
Well-known member
I'm not suprised at all...with all those ethics and morals Jr. has, did you expect anything less?
He's avoiding issues, important ones, like the deficit, economy, healthcare, social security tanking, etc. etc. and instead chooses playing the touchy feely re-election card. Just a typical politician. Why not campaign about all the great things he's done??? Oh, thats right, he hasnt done anything great.
This latest move may be the thing that puts Jr. in the unemployment line.
I'm sure this line of campaigning will come to an end real quick.
He's avoiding issues, important ones, like the deficit, economy, healthcare, social security tanking, etc. etc. and instead chooses playing the touchy feely re-election card. Just a typical politician. Why not campaign about all the great things he's done??? Oh, thats right, he hasnt done anything great.
This latest move may be the thing that puts Jr. in the unemployment line.
I'm sure this line of campaigning will come to an end real quick.
JoseCuervo
New member
Calif. Hunter
Active member
I am sure that all the people who are complaining are Kerry or Nader supporters. Like you, it would not matter what Bush did or said, they would not agree with it. Firefighters and their unions, being on the public payroll like all civil servants, are notoriously liberal. Name one union that does not support the democratic candidate more often than not.
And a group called "Peaceful Tomorrows" sounds like a real brain trust. "Pass 'em another joint and maybe they'll go away." You know, if we all sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya, the terrorists will just go away.
And a group called "Peaceful Tomorrows" sounds like a real brain trust.
"Pass 'em another joint and maybe they'll go away." You know, if we all sit in a circle and sing Kumbaya, the terrorists will just go away.
It doesn't matter whether those folks quoted support Kerry, Bush, or Michael Jackson. The fact is, those are the people who were directly affected by 9/11, and they're offended by the ads. That should be enough reason for Bush to pull them.
If Bush wins this election, it's going to be despite his campaign efforts.
Oak
If Bush wins this election, it's going to be despite his campaign efforts.
Oak
JoseCuervo
New member
Cali,Originally posted by Calif. Hunter:
Firefighters and their unions, being on the public payroll like all civil servants, are notoriously liberal.
And a group called "Peaceful Tomorrows" sounds like a real brain trust.
I don't know that because a Firefighter is a "liberal" is a reason to send them into a burning builidng with less than adequate equipment. Are you really saying it is ok to have "liberals" risk their lives for you, and you don't feel a need to give them a chance of coming out alive, more times than not? Should we treat the "liberals" in our Armed Forces the same?
And as for "Peaceful Tomorrows", as it is a widows group from the WTC, I will cut them some slack on how they pick their name. But I am not sure how you can make the link from somebody losing a family member in the WTC to being a pot smoker?
Calif. Hunter
Active member
Victims are the worst people to ask about a situation or to ask for a solution to the event that victimized them. Look at Sarah Brady and her reaction to the acts of a madman - ban all guns. While certainly money cannot take the place of the lost loved ones, the victims' families have been the beneficiaries of a tremendous amount of attention and, yes, money. Why are these families entitled to any more consideration than the families of the policeman or soldier who loses their life in the line of duty somewhere else?
Are these members of Peaceful Tomorrows exploiting their own status in making their anti-Bush statements? Why should their opinion count more than mine?
I think that a person who takes a risk-filled job knows what they are doing. If the equipment is inadequate, it is still their choice to enter the building or not. A cadet in firefighting school out here gets about $3600 a month - not a bad wage. Is his life worth it? That is his/her decision, isn't it? When did we start paying the brave men and women in our armed forces that much?
Are these members of Peaceful Tomorrows exploiting their own status in making their anti-Bush statements? Why should their opinion count more than mine?
I think that a person who takes a risk-filled job knows what they are doing. If the equipment is inadequate, it is still their choice to enter the building or not. A cadet in firefighting school out here gets about $3600 a month - not a bad wage. Is his life worth it? That is his/her decision, isn't it? When did we start paying the brave men and women in our armed forces that much?
cjcj
New member
They should show those twin towers burning at least once a week just to "remind" us of what we are fighting against! but to air it in Spanish is Bullshit! i haven`t seen the ad yet so i will have to withhold judgement.
JoseCuervo
New member
Cali,
I doubt you would like the inference that all Viet Nam vets are pot smokers, why would you assume a group of "widows and orphans" would want you to "pass em another joint"....
And as for Fireman and their wages, I doubt it has anything to do with how much they are making, it has to do with having the equipment required to do the job expected.
CJ,
It looks like Dubya will show you those towers burning twice a week, just to keep your mind off the issues that he has created that are weighing this country down.
I doubt you would like the inference that all Viet Nam vets are pot smokers, why would you assume a group of "widows and orphans" would want you to "pass em another joint"....
And as for Fireman and their wages, I doubt it has anything to do with how much they are making, it has to do with having the equipment required to do the job expected.
CJ,
It looks like Dubya will show you those towers burning twice a week, just to keep your mind off the issues that he has created that are weighing this country down.
JoseCuervo
New member
JoseCuervo
New member
Calif. Hunter
Active member
I smoked pot when I was in Viet Nam. Your point? When I got home, beer was cheaper and legal.
P
pawclaws
Guest
Yep, looks like the Unions have been told to vote for the Democrats AGAIN!!! I sure am shocked! I take it that you boys bitchin about Bush; your candidate, the man who invented the internet, didn't win then!!
I sure am shocked! I take it that you boys bitchin about Bush; your candidate, the man who invented the internet, didn't win then!! 
Nemont
Well-known member
The use of images of 9/11 were tasteful done and in no way did they disgrace the fallen heroes, it was historically accurate. Bush's Predidency is going to be judged, by and large, on his leadership and reaction to that date. It is part of his record which he must run on. I think the democrats do not want Bush or Kerry to have to run on their records.
If Bush cannot use 9/11 why should Kerry be allowed to use Vietnam, a war that he protested as soon as he came back (even while his comrades were still fighting and dying). Both experiences are life changing and are part of who both men are.
Nemont
[ 03-06-2004, 17:05: Message edited by: Nemont ]
If Bush cannot use 9/11 why should Kerry be allowed to use Vietnam, a war that he protested as soon as he came back (even while his comrades were still fighting and dying). Both experiences are life changing and are part of who both men are.
Nemont
[ 03-06-2004, 17:05: Message edited by: Nemont ]
P
pawclaws
Guest
What bothers me is : If the victims families were so insensed, why did somebody have to ask them how they felt about the ads in the first place? And who was doing the asking? Troublemakers looking for stuff to stir?? Naw; probably just a group of highly concerned liberals with nothing better to do than stick their noses in somebody els's business! :grrrr:
Erik in AK
New member
- Like it or not, 9/11 defined the Bush presidency...it is the central theme of everything he's done. It would be unrealistic and unfair to deny him his rightful opportunity to make political hay from the outstanding leadership he displayed in the aftermath.
If it had happened on 9/11/93 instead of 01 and assuming WJC did a good enough job, do you really believe there would've be no references in 96? C'mon?
- Most firefighters are conservatives who vote for democrats because of their union(IAFF).
- Fire depts are NOT the responsibility of any president!! They are municipal entities and therefore municipally funded with some state/fed aid. Could it be that only 10% of the country's FDs are prepared to deal with building collapse scenarios because only about 10% of America's cities are large enough to fund that kind of training/equipment(and because its probably not a prevalent threat in smaller cities)
- I saw the ad. If anything it honored the 9/11 fallen. If W broke a promise than the ad was a bad idea. However, this country has been a little too eager to "put it behind us" in my opinion.
- As far as the other issues--Clinton gave us NAFTA in 96 and a recoilling economy in 2000. Job growth is static or declining because our corporations continue to ship jobs overseas. No expensive union mandated health care to pay for in India (knowhattamean?) That, and automation are replacing American workers at alarming rates. Could a Bush policy or plan staunch the job hemmorage in 3 years? I honestly don't know.
If it had happened on 9/11/93 instead of 01 and assuming WJC did a good enough job, do you really believe there would've be no references in 96? C'mon?
- Most firefighters are conservatives who vote for democrats because of their union(IAFF).
- Fire depts are NOT the responsibility of any president!! They are municipal entities and therefore municipally funded with some state/fed aid. Could it be that only 10% of the country's FDs are prepared to deal with building collapse scenarios because only about 10% of America's cities are large enough to fund that kind of training/equipment(and because its probably not a prevalent threat in smaller cities)
- I saw the ad. If anything it honored the 9/11 fallen. If W broke a promise than the ad was a bad idea. However, this country has been a little too eager to "put it behind us" in my opinion.
- As far as the other issues--Clinton gave us NAFTA in 96 and a recoilling economy in 2000. Job growth is static or declining because our corporations continue to ship jobs overseas. No expensive union mandated health care to pay for in India (knowhattamean?) That, and automation are replacing American workers at alarming rates. Could a Bush policy or plan staunch the job hemmorage in 3 years? I honestly don't know.
JoseCuervo
New member
Erik,
You are correct, Dubya's presidency will be defined by Sept 11. As he has been unable to manage anything else, as he has spent the last 3 years on his "war on terror" and raising $150 million dollars for a re-election.
He couldn't help the economy. He has done nothing for Salmon. He has allowed Welfare Ranchers to continue grazing on Public Lands. He has made up stories to tell in his State of the Union, etc.. etc.. etc...
He is going to spend $150 million from his Oil Industry buddies, whose pockets he lined, to tell voters for the next 8 months that if you don't vote for him, you are un-American.
We will likely find that people who are still living in fear of another 9-11 will vote for Dubya. Others who care about a laundry list of neglected items will vote for Kerry. Who knows which group is largest....
You are correct, Dubya's presidency will be defined by Sept 11. As he has been unable to manage anything else, as he has spent the last 3 years on his "war on terror" and raising $150 million dollars for a re-election.
He couldn't help the economy. He has done nothing for Salmon. He has allowed Welfare Ranchers to continue grazing on Public Lands. He has made up stories to tell in his State of the Union, etc.. etc.. etc...
He is going to spend $150 million from his Oil Industry buddies, whose pockets he lined, to tell voters for the next 8 months that if you don't vote for him, you are un-American.
We will likely find that people who are still living in fear of another 9-11 will vote for Dubya. Others who care about a laundry list of neglected items will vote for Kerry. Who knows which group is largest....
ROCKYMTNELKSTALKER
New member
"as he has spent the last 3 years on his "war on terror"
In case you selpt through the attacks on 9/11 I just want to remind you that those attacks affected all of us. It is NOT his war on terror, it is our war on terror. In this day it amazes me that people can be so blind as to that fact. The dirt bags that perpetrated this act did not do it because of our president, they did it because they HATE america and everything that it stands for.
Yes, Bush is using 9/11 in his reelection campaign and he has every right to do so. Yes it hurts to relive the events of that day and it upsets some people, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened.If you don't remember the pain and the feeling of absolute helplessness then you are a very different person then I am. I believe in all my heart that we should not forget, nor should we want to forget what happened and how it changed our lives forever.
If you think what happened is ok, and you don't support bush's way of dealing with it, then tell the families of those that died that day in the towers, or tell that to the loved ones who lay the flag draped coffin containing the body of the soldier on eternal leave to rest. I can garuntee you that you will get a different reaction from them.
It's easy to sit in a coffee shop or at home on a computer and pick apart all the things that you think are wrong with whats happening today, but it's not easy to wait by the phone for a call from DOD every time a soldier, sailor or marine dies over there.
And finally, as for firemen, I'm a volunteer firefighter in my town, and I can tell you that the money that has been made available to firedepartments through grants has never been higher nor have the departments been able to use it on a wider range of getting things for the department. The grants available will cover everything from new stations and trucks to getting baseball caps with your department name on them.
If a person wants to bitch about how bad things are, then at least get the facts right, and then try bitching to someone who has been directly affected by the events of 9/11.
JMO
Scott
In case you selpt through the attacks on 9/11 I just want to remind you that those attacks affected all of us. It is NOT his war on terror, it is our war on terror. In this day it amazes me that people can be so blind as to that fact. The dirt bags that perpetrated this act did not do it because of our president, they did it because they HATE america and everything that it stands for.
Yes, Bush is using 9/11 in his reelection campaign and he has every right to do so. Yes it hurts to relive the events of that day and it upsets some people, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened.If you don't remember the pain and the feeling of absolute helplessness then you are a very different person then I am. I believe in all my heart that we should not forget, nor should we want to forget what happened and how it changed our lives forever.
If you think what happened is ok, and you don't support bush's way of dealing with it, then tell the families of those that died that day in the towers, or tell that to the loved ones who lay the flag draped coffin containing the body of the soldier on eternal leave to rest. I can garuntee you that you will get a different reaction from them.
It's easy to sit in a coffee shop or at home on a computer and pick apart all the things that you think are wrong with whats happening today, but it's not easy to wait by the phone for a call from DOD every time a soldier, sailor or marine dies over there.
And finally, as for firemen, I'm a volunteer firefighter in my town, and I can tell you that the money that has been made available to firedepartments through grants has never been higher nor have the departments been able to use it on a wider range of getting things for the department. The grants available will cover everything from new stations and trucks to getting baseball caps with your department name on them.
If a person wants to bitch about how bad things are, then at least get the facts right, and then try bitching to someone who has been directly affected by the events of 9/11.
JMO
Scott
JoseCuervo
New member
It is a bit interesting that Dubya uses the picture of somebody's flag draped stretcher being carried out of the WTC, with no regard to the family of the victim. All in the name of re-election. And then he refuses to allow any images of flag draped coffins being unloaded at Dover AFB, out of respect for the family.
Nobody is dismissing Dubya's "war on terror", and he has done a good job on the post 9-11 efforts. But, there is more to running a country than fighting 3 wars and offering 3 tax cuts to pay for them.
In 50 years we will look at Dubya as being a good leader on his war on terror after the attack on the WTC.
In 15 years we will all be "paying the piper" for this deficit of Dubya's and a bankrupt Social Security system. We will have an economy that is even more unproductive as the 14% annual rise in Health Care costs will have further eliminated the ability to create new jobs.
A re-election cycle is essentially a "performance evaluation", and you sit with your employee and go over the entire job results, and you say, yes, you did well here and here, but you didn't get around to these other areas. I think it is time for a change, and we'll move in a different direction.
Nobody is dismissing Dubya's "war on terror", and he has done a good job on the post 9-11 efforts. But, there is more to running a country than fighting 3 wars and offering 3 tax cuts to pay for them.
In 50 years we will look at Dubya as being a good leader on his war on terror after the attack on the WTC.
In 15 years we will all be "paying the piper" for this deficit of Dubya's and a bankrupt Social Security system. We will have an economy that is even more unproductive as the 14% annual rise in Health Care costs will have further eliminated the ability to create new jobs.
A re-election cycle is essentially a "performance evaluation", and you sit with your employee and go over the entire job results, and you say, yes, you did well here and here, but you didn't get around to these other areas. I think it is time for a change, and we'll move in a different direction.
