Do you guys really believe that all ATV riders break the law?
- Thread starter Delw
- Start date
cjcj
New member
Hey Gunner just because you were proven wrong by a "street lawyer" you don`t have to get all uptight. Ernesto that was your opinion and a good post.Buzz...well your Buzz. Too bad that anyone would "lump" all people together because of their race or the type of offroad vehicle they drive...very narrow minded I.M.O , Gee i wonder now if it was legal for the forest service employees that i saw driving their Quads across open meadows and thru the woods [were they legal?] they certainly were not going after downed big game, they told me they were setting up a study area [1 quad was pulling a trailer full of chain link] why wern`t they on a trail? should they be called Lazy/fatassed slobs?...i think they were just doing their jobs... but maybee they should have just packed in that fencing/cement/shovels/etc... 
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ...
Go read page 69 of the AZ regs, and report back what it says....
Go read page 69 of the AZ regs, and report back what it says....
cjcj
New member
Gunner i`m still waiting for you to read page [73]
Wapiti Slayer
New member
cj, these guys see things only 1 way and it's sad! They won't listen to anyone, they are always right and it's just a lost cause to argue with them! Unless you like to argue or point out all the crap they spew that's wrong! 
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
I read page 73
I read page 73
Now will you go read page 69?
cjcj
New member
When you read ALL of it, you know the part[the hard part for you] with the EXCEPTION......you can finish it. Gunner i know you can.
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
Do you even know what 17-454 says???
Prohibition against vehicle travel
No person shall drive a motor operated vehicle cross-country on public or private lands where such cross-country driving is prohibited by rule or regulation or, in the case of private lands, by proper posting.
Refernce: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/17/00454.htm&Title=17&DocType=ARS
Could you explain how ARS 17-454 allows you to retrieve game, given the above description???
For a "street lawyer", you definitely got your money's worth at Law School, assuming you paid nothing....
Do you even know what 17-454 says???
Prohibition against vehicle travel
No person shall drive a motor operated vehicle cross-country on public or private lands where such cross-country driving is prohibited by rule or regulation or, in the case of private lands, by proper posting.
Refernce: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/17/00454.htm&Title=17&DocType=ARS
Could you explain how ARS 17-454 allows you to retrieve game, given the above description???
For a "street lawyer", you definitely got your money's worth at Law School, assuming you paid nothing....
cjcj
New member
CJ will rest his case [proven beyond the shadow of a doubt] lets try something new.
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
Go read ARS 17-454.....
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/17/00454.htm&Title=17&DocType=ARS
I don't think it is called "resting your case" when you have to quite because you LOST!!!!
Go read ARS 17-454.....
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/17/00454.htm&Title=17&DocType=ARS
I don't think it is called "resting your case" when you have to quite because you LOST!!!!
cjcj
New member
Gunner you missed [Exception # 4][455] your cross counseler pssst... it the part about the hunter. CHECKMATE "YOU LOSE"
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
You might check ARS 17-452, before you try capturing my King with your sole remaining Pawn....
17-452. Restrictions on motor vehicle use; recommendations; agreements; rules
A. When the commission determines that the operation of motor vehicles within a certain area, except private land, is or may be damaging to wildlife reproduction, wildlife management or wildlife habitat of such area, the commission, with the concurrence of the land management agency involved and after a public hearing, may order such area closed to motor vehicles for not more than five years from the date of such closure, provided that all roads in such area shall remain open unless specifically closed.
B. The commission may also recommend that particular areas of land be set aside or made available for the use of recreational vehicles.
C. The commission may enter into agreements with landowners and agencies controlling areas that the commission has made recommendations on pursuant to subsection B. Any such agreement shall stipulate the restrictions, prohibitions and permitted uses of motor vehicles in such area and the duties of the commission and such landowner or agency relating to the enforcement of the terms of such agreement.
D. The commission shall adopt rules pursuant to title 41, chapter 6 to carry out the provisions of this section.
452 clearly shows that it is the State that goes to the Feds seeking the restrictions. And the state provides the exception in 455 for the State's actions.
No where in 452 does the State take any authority over Federal Lands.
Uhhhh CJ, you LOST!!!
You might check ARS 17-452, before you try capturing my King with your sole remaining Pawn....
17-452. Restrictions on motor vehicle use; recommendations; agreements; rules
A. When the commission determines that the operation of motor vehicles within a certain area, except private land, is or may be damaging to wildlife reproduction, wildlife management or wildlife habitat of such area, the commission, with the concurrence of the land management agency involved and after a public hearing, may order such area closed to motor vehicles for not more than five years from the date of such closure, provided that all roads in such area shall remain open unless specifically closed.
B. The commission may also recommend that particular areas of land be set aside or made available for the use of recreational vehicles.
C. The commission may enter into agreements with landowners and agencies controlling areas that the commission has made recommendations on pursuant to subsection B. Any such agreement shall stipulate the restrictions, prohibitions and permitted uses of motor vehicles in such area and the duties of the commission and such landowner or agency relating to the enforcement of the terms of such agreement.
D. The commission shall adopt rules pursuant to title 41, chapter 6 to carry out the provisions of this section.
452 clearly shows that it is the State that goes to the Feds seeking the restrictions. And the state provides the exception in 455 for the State's actions.
No where in 452 does the State take any authority over Federal Lands.
Uhhhh CJ, you LOST!!!
cjcj
New member
Now Gunner if you dont just accept the facts then i will have to call up Philip Forman [and you know what that means] and if phil gets into trouble he will sue you and i will represent him {Voir Dire] jury selection is my specialty.
JoseCuervo
New member
I do have to give CJ some credit, as he was close to being near the answer, just lousy interpertation on his part.
ARS 17-455 is as follows
17-455. Exceptions
A. The restrictions, prohibitions or permitted uses established pursuant to section 17-452 shall not apply to:
1. Public employees acting in the scope of their employment.
2. Valid licensees and permittees of state agencies and land management agencies . Holders of such licenses and permits shall be limited to the specific purposes and areas of travel for which such licenses or permits were issued or granted.
3. Necessary travel within or across restricted or prohibited land by employees and agents of public utilities, subject to Arizona corporation commission (or any successor agency) or federal power commission regulation, of suppliers of water or power acting as agents of the federal government, and employees or agents of mining companies exercising rights pursuant to any state or federal mining law or regulation. Other persons who are regularly engaged in prospecting or mineral exploration shall upon application be issued vehicular access permits by the director.
4. A licensed hunter who enters an area solely to pick up a big game animal which he has legally killed.
B. Emergency situations, such as fire or other disasters, or when otherwise necessary to protect life or property shall not require a permit.
C. Parking and camping shall be allowed along open roads in closed areas, except that no vehicle shall be parked or operated at a distance greater than three hundred feet from such roads.
CJ's error was in thinking this supercedes the Agencie's travel laws, which it does not. It just addresses the travel restrictions the Commission puts in on their own.
Now I am wondering if CJ was just as wrong on all of his Illegals, and actually they are all LEGAL!
ARS 17-455 is as follows
17-455. Exceptions
A. The restrictions, prohibitions or permitted uses established pursuant to section 17-452 shall not apply to:
1. Public employees acting in the scope of their employment.
2. Valid licensees and permittees of state agencies and land management agencies . Holders of such licenses and permits shall be limited to the specific purposes and areas of travel for which such licenses or permits were issued or granted.
3. Necessary travel within or across restricted or prohibited land by employees and agents of public utilities, subject to Arizona corporation commission (or any successor agency) or federal power commission regulation, of suppliers of water or power acting as agents of the federal government, and employees or agents of mining companies exercising rights pursuant to any state or federal mining law or regulation. Other persons who are regularly engaged in prospecting or mineral exploration shall upon application be issued vehicular access permits by the director.
4. A licensed hunter who enters an area solely to pick up a big game animal which he has legally killed.
B. Emergency situations, such as fire or other disasters, or when otherwise necessary to protect life or property shall not require a permit.
C. Parking and camping shall be allowed along open roads in closed areas, except that no vehicle shall be parked or operated at a distance greater than three hundred feet from such roads.
CJ's error was in thinking this supercedes the Agencie's travel laws, which it does not. It just addresses the travel restrictions the Commission puts in on their own.
Now I am wondering if CJ was just as wrong on all of his Illegals, and actually they are all LEGAL!
cjcj
New member
Damn Laywers they just won`t quit... Appeals etc. they never stop until they run out of courts. nothind being said about supercedes/centipeeds/mopeds/precedes/ Just the Facts SIR. glad you finally highlighted exception # 4 damn i thought i was gonna die before you saw it. WHew We.
Muledeer4me
New member
Quote from ithaca,
"You're a big part of the problem. How about posting that picture of you retreiving your antelope with the ATV again?"
Hey Ithaca, Like I told you before ,if you think I did something illegal in that picture it's your duty to turn me in.
If it's against the law to be a short woman hunting alone and using an ATV to access my hunting area and haul out game then I am guilty as heck.
I was all legal in that picture and in fact I could of drove right up to where I dropped that antelope had I chose to do so.
As it was after I took proper care of a downed animal and as I was walking back to where I had parked my ATV that morning ,I was lucky enough to cross one of the many roads in the area and noticed it was closer to the antelope then I had thought .
I had been haveing a great time and did several stalks that day before I was lucky enough to have it all come together and kill that buck,and I kinda lost track of where I had left my ATV that morning,and how many two track roads I had crossed while stalking antelope that day.
After driving my ATV on the road to where I had left my flagging tape ,I then drug the antelope over to the legal open to full size vehicle two track road,
however being that I am quite short and not as strong as you are I relized that I needed some leverage to get the buck up on the rack of my ATV ,so I drove to the side of the road to where my tire was up against some tall sage then drug and propped the buck on it so I could pull and lift in up onto the rack.
My other option's were to drive right up to where I dropped him then use the sage brush to help me leverage him up or cut him up and place it on the ATV or cut it up and use my pack frame ,all options I have used in the past.
I decided to drag it as far as I could and try to place him whole on the ATV because I know it would be easer to skin ,wash and bag him whole as I was camped in a area with no trees and Steve had the truck with the game hoist in it.
So Ithaca , what part is it YOU have the problem with??????
Please enlighten us all as to what I did that was illegal or even unethical!!!!!!!
The only thing left to think is that you have such hate for other people that you can not handle the thought that someone could use there ATV in a legal manner and prove you wrong.
It must really suck to live with all that hate and anger ready to point a finger at anyone that doesn't do thing's the way YOU think it should be done.
"You're a big part of the problem. How about posting that picture of you retreiving your antelope with the ATV again?"
Hey Ithaca, Like I told you before ,if you think I did something illegal in that picture it's your duty to turn me in.
If it's against the law to be a short woman hunting alone and using an ATV to access my hunting area and haul out game then I am guilty as heck.
I was all legal in that picture and in fact I could of drove right up to where I dropped that antelope had I chose to do so.
As it was after I took proper care of a downed animal and as I was walking back to where I had parked my ATV that morning ,I was lucky enough to cross one of the many roads in the area and noticed it was closer to the antelope then I had thought .
I had been haveing a great time and did several stalks that day before I was lucky enough to have it all come together and kill that buck,and I kinda lost track of where I had left my ATV that morning,and how many two track roads I had crossed while stalking antelope that day.
After driving my ATV on the road to where I had left my flagging tape ,I then drug the antelope over to the legal open to full size vehicle two track road,
however being that I am quite short and not as strong as you are I relized that I needed some leverage to get the buck up on the rack of my ATV ,so I drove to the side of the road to where my tire was up against some tall sage then drug and propped the buck on it so I could pull and lift in up onto the rack.
My other option's were to drive right up to where I dropped him then use the sage brush to help me leverage him up or cut him up and place it on the ATV or cut it up and use my pack frame ,all options I have used in the past.
I decided to drag it as far as I could and try to place him whole on the ATV because I know it would be easer to skin ,wash and bag him whole as I was camped in a area with no trees and Steve had the truck with the game hoist in it.
So Ithaca , what part is it YOU have the problem with??????
Please enlighten us all as to what I did that was illegal or even unethical!!!!!!!
The only thing left to think is that you have such hate for other people that you can not handle the thought that someone could use there ATV in a legal manner and prove you wrong.
It must really suck to live with all that hate and anger ready to point a finger at anyone that doesn't do thing's the way YOU think it should be done.
cjcj
New member
Don`t worry MD even the BLM/Forest circus/and othe Government agency`s use ATV`s /Quad`s all of the time [mostly polaris 4x4] I see them all of the time. OH the Hippocracy.
MarvB
Well-known member
WOW 
this is gonna challenge cj's "Illegals thread"...117 posts in about 6 days and still climbing
this is gonna challenge cj's "Illegals thread"...117 posts in about 6 days and still climbing
Delw
Member
We had this happen before and it was a bunch of BS, someone says a person shot a lion after dark due to the pictures and had game and fish called on them.
While pictures say a thousand words they can also be decieving,
I will tell all of you if any member calls game and fish on another member due to what they think is illegal in a pic or because they dont like them and want to give them a bad time, I will PERMANATLY BAN YOU and make it so you couldnt get on this server let alone read the board.
I think Moosie would back me up 100% on that.
Ithaca 37
New member
MD, "so I drove to the side of the road to where my tire was up against some tall sage then drug and propped the buck on it so I could pull and lift in up onto the rack."
Thanks for admitting you damaged the sage brush. Pretty hard not to when you drag an animal up onto it and wrestle it onto an ATV with the tire up against it. Whatever happened to the picture you showed us when you returned? As soon as someone pointed out there wasn't any road the picture disappeared!
[ 09-16-2004, 20:49: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]
Thanks for admitting you damaged the sage brush. Pretty hard not to when you drag an animal up onto it and wrestle it onto an ATV with the tire up against it. Whatever happened to the picture you showed us when you returned? As soon as someone pointed out there wasn't any road the picture disappeared!
[ 09-16-2004, 20:49: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]
