Do you carry a pistol for bear when elk hunting???

[MinnesotaHunter]

IMO/E those with pistols are wayyyy over confident while packing a pistol.

This ^

If you are confident in your ability to hit a charging bear in the CNS, while your body is simultaneously dumping every ounce of adrenaline it has onboard into the system. It is only because you are ignorant. For most people, flat range work really only serves to build hubris versus confidence.

 

[BuzzH]

Did you not read my previous post? I've shot and killed a wounded black bear that was charging. How many charging bears have you had to shoot?

How effective is shooting at a charging animal with a scoped rifle? I'm sensing you don't have as much experience as you lead people to believe. Why have every guide I've hunted with carried a pistol?

A proper bear defense rifle would have open sights and a short barrel... Not a hunting rifle.

Is that right?

How many grizzlies have you seen? How many have you had at, say under 10 yards, you know, gnawing on your buddies pack?

How often do you see a bear guide only packing a pistol?

How often do you seen USFS employees carrying anything in AK except a rifle?

 

[OntarioHunter]

Oh buzz. Haven't spoken in awhile. Hope all is well up there.

When being attacked, you have seconds. I'd rather maneuver a pistol than a rifle with a 26" barrel and a scope for a quick shot. I figure you'd realize that self defense scenarios usually happen in split seconds. You'd be lucky to get 1 shot off with a rifle at a charging bear.

I can't believe you think a hunting rifle is better for bear defense than a pistol...

Think of a scenario... You're walking through the brush. Rifle slung over your shoulder. Not carrying one in the tube because that's not a great idea. I'm walking next to you with a pistol in a chest harness. Loaded and ready to go. It's in a tension lock holster so it's safe to carry loaded. A bear comes busting out of the brush 20 yards in front of us. Who's more likely to put ANY rounds into the bear?

One shot from an 06 or 300 WM will slow up a bear a lot more than even my 357. Hit him once very well or half a dozen times half-assed? I'll go with the former. Should I hunt Cape buffalo with a 30-30 Winchester 94 or a 500 Nitro Express double rifle? Lots more shots in the tube of that lever gun doesn't make it the better choices.

 

[BuzzH]

This ^

If you are confident in your ability to hit a charging bear in the CNS, while your body is simultaneously dumping every ounce of adrenaline it has onboard into the system. It is only because you are ignorant. For most people, flat range work really only serves to build hubris versus confidence.

Exactly.

Then there's just the physics involved in rifle bullets, wound channels, etc. etc. and the same with pistol bullets. Rifle will out penetrate, hit harder, do more damage than a pistol bullet. Pure physics.

I take the rifle, every single time, and twice on Sunday over both a shotgun or pistol in a bear charge situation. If you don't have time to use the rifle, you aren't going to have time to use the pistol either.

The absolute best tool that we have, is that 11 lb melon that sits atop one's shoulders. Making good decisions in bear country is going to save a person from finding out if their pistol skills are as bad ass as their typing skills on a computer.

 

[brockel]

I’d be better off throwing the pistol really hard at a bear vs trying to shoot it. WAY more confident in my rifle.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Is that right?

How many grizzlies have you seen? How many have you had at, say under 10 yards, you know, gnawing on your buddies pack?

How often do you see a bear guide only packing a pistol?

How often do you seen USFS employees carrying anything in AK except a rifle?

And 375 bolt actions too. Not the shotguns the Park Service uses. Shotgun is okay in a close range charging situation but we were responsible for keeping bears off fishermen a quarter mile away. By the time that shotgun was in range the fisherman could be half eaten.

 

[BuzzH]

How effective is shooting at a charging animal with a scoped rifle? I'm sensing you don't have as much experience as you lead people to believe. Why have every guide I've hunted with carried a pistol?

A proper bear defense rifle would have open sights and a short barrel... Not a hunting rifle.

Yeah, hopefully someday I can see 32 brown bears in a few day hunt, some under 10 yards, or these two, at less than 25.

This wasn't with a guide, was with one of my best friends, who killed a brown bear on that trip. The same trip that we had a brown bear sow and cub at 6-7 yards gnawing on his pack. The bears that didn't even look up when my buddy shot right next to it in the lake at 6 yards. The same bear that I shot a rock about the size of baseball at its foot with a .338 and 250 grain partitions a couple seconds later. That did the trick and they moved on.

You know what I didn't wish I had one single time on that trip? A pistol. And that bear would have had ZERO chance to make it to our tent if it hadn't decided to move on after I shot the rock at its hind foot.

I mean, I've only lived, worked, and hunted around both black and grizzly bears for my entire life.

 

[rjthehunter]

Is that right?

How many grizzlies have you seen? How many have you had at, say under 10 yards, you know, gnawing on your buddies pack?

How often do you see a bear guide only packing a pistol?

How often do you seen USFS employees carrying anything in AK except a rifle?

AK bear guides carry short barrel rifles DESIGNED for self defense. Not scoped hunting rifles. You're ignoring a fatal flaw in your logic. What kind of scope do you have on your rifle? Is it a 1x?

This ^

If you are confident in your ability to hit a charging bear in the CNS, while your body is simultaneously dumping every ounce of adrenaline it has onboard into the system. It is only because you are ignorant. For most people, flat range work really only serves to build hubris Muscle Memory versus confidence.

FIFY

One shot from an 06 or 300 WM will slow up a bear a lot more than even my 357. Hit him once very well or half a dozen times half-assed? I'll go with the former. Should I hunt Cape buffalo with a 30-30 Winchester 94 or a 500 Nitro Express double rifle? Lots more shots in the tube of that lever gun doesn't make it the better choices.

A double barrel 500 Nitro Express is designed to put an animal down quickly at close range. You don't have a 4-12 scope on it right?

You literally have a second or two to pull a shot off when being surprised. I'd bet large sums of money most of you couldn't shoulder your rifle and get a decent sight picture in under 2 seconds, let alone make a decent shot.

Clearly a 300wm or any larger rifle would put a bear down faster than a handgun. In most cases I've read, the bear disengages once it's shot once.

Read some of the stories. Several end in basically hand to hand combat with the bears.

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber - Sporting Classics Daily

This article originally appear on Ammoland.com Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- On the Internet, and in print, many people claim that pistols lack efficacy in defending against bear attacks. Here is an example that occurred on freerepublic.com: “Actually, there are legions of people who have been badly...

sportingclassicsdaily.com

 

[rjthehunter]

Yeah, hopefully someday I can see 32 brown bears in a few day hunt, some under 10 yards, or these two, at less than 25.

This wasn't with a guide, was with one of my best friends, who killed a brown bear on that trip. The same trip that we had a brown bear sow and cub at 6-7 yards gnawing on his pack. The bears that didn't even look up when my buddy shot right next to it in the lake at 6 yards. The same bear that I shot a rock about the size of baseball at its foot with a .338 and 250 grain partitions a couple seconds later. That did the trick and they moved on.

You know what I didn't wish I had one single time on that trip? A pistol. And that bear would have had ZERO chance to make it to our tent if it hadn't decided to move on after I shot the rock at its hind foot.

I mean, I've only lived, worked, and hunted around both black and grizzly bears for my entire life.

Buzz, clearly in this scenario a rifle would be ideal. You're in open country. Like I said, a scoped hunting rifle is less than ideal when you're surprised by a bear. There's no real surprise there when you can see the bear coming from a mile away.

 

[WapitiBob]

Both my hunting buddies pack pistols. We've encountered 2 Blacks while hunting. Both times they came out of nowhere and had they come our direction instead of going the other way, neither pistol would have even been touched let alone drawn and fired before one of those bears was on top of them. Maybe, if the bear stood up and said "1-2-3 here I come" a pistol might have been drawn.

 

[BuzzH]

AK bear guides carry short barrel rifles DESIGNED for self defense. Not scoped hunting rifles. You're ignoring a fatal flaw in your logic. What kind of scope do you have on your rifle? Is it a 1x?


FIFY


A double barrel 500 Nitro Express is designed to put an animal down quickly at close range. You don't have a 4-12 scope on it right?

You literally have a second or two to pull a shot off when being surprised. I'd bet large sums of money most of you couldn't shoulder your rifle and get a decent sight picture in under 2 seconds, let alone make a decent shot.

Clearly a 300wm or any larger rifle would put a bear down faster than a handgun. In most cases I've read, the bear disengages once it's shot once.

Read some of the stories. Several end in basically hand to hand combat with the bears.

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber - Sporting Classics Daily

This article originally appear on Ammoland.com Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- On the Internet, and in print, many people claim that pistols lack efficacy in defending against bear attacks. Here is an example that occurred on freerepublic.com: “Actually, there are legions of people who have been badly...

sportingclassicsdaily.com

On my .338? At the time we had the run in at 6 yards in AK, a 2-7 burris compact. Currently a fixed 4x weaver.

Same scope I was using when I killed this black bear in Montana:

I have ZERO problem acquiring a target at close range on either a 3-9 or a 4-12, surprised you do?

In any situation where its a 2 second deal, you aren't going to react ANY faster with a pistol than a rifle, except in your mind.

 

[338win]

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, clearly in this scenario a rifle would be ideal. You're in open country. Like I said, a scoped hunting rifle is less than ideal when you're surprised by a bear. There's no real surprise there when you can see the bear coming from a mile away.

Clearly in ANY scenario a rifle is better than a pistol for bear defense, spray probably better than both.

 

[rjthehunter]

On my .338? At the time we had the run in at 6 yards in AK, a 2-7 burris compact. Currently a fixed 4x weaver.

Same scope I was using when I killed this black bear in Montana:

I have ZERO problem acquiring a target at close range on either a 3-9 or a 4-12, surprised you do?

In any situation where its a 2 second deal, you aren't going to react ANY faster with a pistol than a rifle, except in your mind.

You're impossible. I guarantee I can draw and shoot my pistol faster and more accurately than you can shoulder and shoot a scoped hunting rifle.

Was your black bear charging you in the woods? Or did you use a hunting rifle for it's intended purpose?

If you're dumb enough to think you can shoot faster with a scoped bolt action rifle, then that's the end of this conversation because you're delusional and I'm not offering free therapy online.

 

[Blue Steel]

Oh buzz. Haven't spoken in awhile. Hope all is well up there on your high horse.

When being attacked, you have seconds. I'd rather maneuver a pistol than a rifle with a 26" barrel and a scope for a quick shot. I figure you'd realize that self defense scenarios usually happen in split seconds. You'd be lucky to get 1 shot off with a rifle at a charging bear.

I can't believe you think a hunting rifle is better for bear defense than a pistol...

Think of a scenario... You're walking through the brush. Rifle slung over your shoulder. Not carrying one in the tube because that's not a great idea. I'm walking next to you with a pistol in a chest harness. Loaded and ready to go. It's in a tension lock holster so it's safe to carry loaded. A bear comes busting out of the brush 20 yards in front of us. Who's more likely to put ANY rounds into the bear?

Definitely depends on what kind of terrain you're in.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Did you not read my previous post? I've shot and killed a wounded black bear that was charging. How many charging bears have you had to shoot?

How effective is shooting at a charging animal with a scoped rifle? I'm sensing you don't have as much experience as you lead people to believe. Why have every guide I've hunted with carried a pistol?

A proper bear defense rifle would have open sights and a short barrel... Not a hunting rifle.

This gemsbuck was incoming at a gallop when I shot it in the chest through the heart at less than twenty yards. And then again through the shoulder and heart as it ran by at twelve yards. 165 gr Partition 30-06. Note the rifle. Springfield with 24" barrel wearing a 3x9 Nikon. I think the scope was probably turned down to 4x. No problems shooting it fast and accurate. My gun has optional iron sights but shooting through the scope was no problem at all. I had no time to detach the scope. And I knew exactly where each of those bullets would hit.

Correction: This gemsbuck was shot the year before I added a new barrel with iron sights. Scope only.

 

[BuzzH]

You're impossible. I guarantee I can draw and shoot my pistol faster and more accurately than you can shoulder and shoot a scoped hunting rifle.

Was your black bear charging you in the woods? Or did you use a hunting rifle for it's intended purpose?

If you're dumb enough to think you can shoot faster with a scoped bolt action rifle, then that's the end of this conversation because you're delusional and I'm not offering free therapy online.

Faster means nothing when you can't hit anything...and if anyone is boasting of over-confidence from lack of experience in bear country, that would be you.

Pack your hog leg all you want, I've somehow survived hunting and working in bear country longer than you've been alive without your vast experience and knowledge.

Its a miracle, I should be dead by now since I've never packed a pistol, or lived most of my life in Minnesota.

Laffin'...

 

[rjthehunter]

This gemsbuck was incoming at a gallop when I shot it in the chest through the heart at less than twenty yards. And then again through the shoulder and heart as it ran by at twelve yards. 165 gr Partition 30-06. Note the rifle. Springfield with 24" barrel wearing a 3x9 Nikon. I think the scope was probably turned down to 4x. No problems shooting it fast and accurate. My gun has optional iron sights but shooting through the scope was no problem at all. I had no time to detach the scope. And I knew exactly where each of those bullets would hit.
View attachment 286104

I'm not saying close shots aren't possible with a rifle, but what are you more likely to have ready if you're walking through the brush and bump into a bear? The pistol on your chest, or the rifle slung over your shoulder?

 

[BuzzH]

This gemsbuck was incoming at a gallop when I shot it in the chest through the heart at less than twenty yards. And then again through the shoulder and heart as it ran by at twelve yards. 165 gr Partition 30-06. Note the rifle. Springfield with 24" barrel wearing a 3x9 Nikon. I think the scope was probably turned down to 4x. No problems shooting it fast and accurate. My gun has optional iron sights but shooting through the scope was no problem at all. I had no time to detach the scope. And I knew exactly where each of those bullets would hit.

Correction: This gemsbuck was shot the year before I added a new barrel with iron sights. Scope only.
View attachment 286104

Stunt shooting and luck, that's all that was.

Signed, rjthehunter.

P.S. Buy a pistol next time with a fancy quick draw rig.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm not saying close shots aren't possible with a rifle, but what are you more likely to have ready if you're walking through the brush and bump into a bear? The pistol on your chest, or the rifle slung over your shoulder?

The rifle in my hands...with a round in the chamber.

If only obviously.